Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-11-2021, 18:23   #91
Registered User
 
JustMurph's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Boat: Mumby 48
Posts: 128
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
Surfer Sex Wax improved their hook up chances but not reproductive success.
What are we talking about here?
JustMurph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 00:34   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 13
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
At the very least your posts have been misleading. The "microplastics" identified in the link you just posted are actually flakes of anti fouling paint. So of course it is reasonable to assume these flakes also contain biocide. But your previous post made me (and others, obviously) believe what you were referring to were biocides trapped inside of a coating of plastic. What is missing from your treatise is a definition of "microplastics" which certainly covers a wider range of pollutants than the average reader is aware of.

Yes, it's exactly this, biocides trapped inside the plastic binder of the antifoul, do a google search, there are dozens of articles and papers about this.

The concentration of antifouling microplastics near marinas, shipping routes e.t.c. sometimes makes up for up to 80% of all microplastics in the area.

Everyone seems to care about the microplastics of everyday use plastics that are pretty much inert, huge amounts of money dumped into it but no one ever mentions antifouling microplastics because then some huge companies may start to take big losses.

It's a joke since all the funding for antifouling research goes to the same companies that are in jeopardy if the current biocides get banned.
propmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 05:52   #93
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 4,859
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by propmaster View Post
Yes, it's exactly this, biocides trapped inside the plastic binder of the antifoul, do a google search, there are dozens of articles and papers about this.
You are misrepresenting what the article says. The article essentially says that that paint flakes ARE microplastics. It says nothing about binders. The binder is not the issue here. The fact that large amounts of tiny anti fouling paint flakes apparently exist in the seas is the issue.

From the article:

"After fibres, paint flakes appear to be the most abundant type of microplastic in the oceans..."
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 14:26   #94
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 13
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
You are misrepresenting what the article says. The article essentially says that that paint flakes ARE microplastics. It says nothing about binders. The binder is not the issue here. The fact that large amounts of tiny anti fouling paint flakes apparently exist in the seas is the issue.

From the article:

"After fibres, paint flakes appear to be the most abundant type of microplastic in the oceans..."
A binder or resin is the carrier for the pigments and additives in paints, in ablative antifouling paints or coatings the binder is usually an acrylic type and the pigment is the biocide mixture, some manufacturers modify the binder or the biocide a little to achieve a more steady biocide release, on top of the main biocides which are the copper or zinc salts in yacht antifouling paint there are also adjuvant biocides that help to kill more types of sea organisms.
Microplastics can be flakes or spheres it doesn't matter what shape they are.
When the microparticles detach from the ablative type antifouling there's also biocide in them, ablative type coatings are designed to be hydrolytically unstable so the binder deteriorates so fast in water that when a ship moves the water drag causes all the deteriorated binder to detach from the surface dislodging any foulant that adhered to it and expose fresh biocide to the water, so in essence, these are designed to release microplastics filled with biocides into the ocean, whether the biocide completely leaches out in a year or two from each microplastic particle is something I don't know and depends on the specific composition of each coating.
propmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 14:32   #95
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 4,859
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by propmaster View Post
A binder or resin is the carrier for the pigments and additives in paints, in ablative antifouling paints or coatings the binder is usually an acrylic type and the pigment is the biocide mixture, some manufacturers modify the binder or the biocide a little to achieve a more steady biocide release, on top of the main biocides which are the copper or zinc salts in yacht antifouling paint there are also adjuvant biocides that help to kill more types of sea organisms.

Microplastics can be flakes or spheres it doesn't matter what shape they are.

When the microparticles detach from the ablative type antifouling there's also biocide in them, ablative type coatings are designed to be hydrolytically unstable so the binder deteriorates so fast in water that when a ship moves the water drag causes all the deteriorated binder to detach from the surface dislodging any foulant that adhered to it and expose fresh biocide to the water, so in essence, these are designed to release microplastics filled with biocides into the ocean, whether the biocide completely leaches out in a year or two from each microplastic particle is something I don't know and depends on the specific composition of each coating.


My point is that I donít believe that the layman understands that anti fouling paint flakes are considered to be microplastics and your argument would be better served if you took that into consideration.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 15:28   #96
Registered User
 
longjonsilver's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: halifax, nova scotia
Boat: Searunner 37
Posts: 685
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

i think that too many people here just like to argue semantics
__________________
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance. Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life. VE0XYZ
longjonsilver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 15:36   #97
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 4,859
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
i think that too many people here just like to argue semantics


Nobodyís twisting your arm to read it, chief.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 15:43   #98
Senior Cruiser
 
michaeld's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Boat: Kaufman 47, Cutter
Posts: 241
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

At the end of the day, if someone comes out with something better than Petit Trinidad Pro, I'll buy it.

Here in south Florida, it's the go to bottom paint.

After all, this area is ground zero for barnacles, green slime, and you name it marine growth.
michaeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 17:46   #99
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 4,859
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeld View Post
At the end of the day, if someone comes out with something better than Petit Trinidad Pro, I'll buy it.
That's interesting. Most of the Florida divers I know rave about Sea Hawk Biocop.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2021, 02:56   #100
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 13
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
That's interesting. Most of the Florida divers I know rave about Sea Hawk Biocop.
Quote:
A new dual-biocide technology and revolutionary polymer binder system “PL3” produces an engineered biocide that leaves no harmful effects on the environment. Biocop TF is considered the top performer among antifouling paints and is safe in salt or fresh water on boats of all sizes.
Talk about false advertising.

Both the trinidad and the biocop have a very high biocide loading almost 70% , it's the only reason they work better than others, they can't sell these in the EU because there's a limit in the EU for the biocide content, the US doesn't have such limits.
propmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2021, 04:53   #101
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 4,859
Re: Test new kind of antifouling, silicone based

Quote:
Originally Posted by propmaster View Post
Talk about false advertising.

I am a lifelong fan of Trinidad but I donít know that I have ever cleaned a boat painted with Biocop, so I am unable to judge its effectiveness. I would certainly be interested in knowing how Sea Hawk can claim it is not harmful to the environment. It wouldnít be the first time that company has made blatantly false statements about their products.
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experiences with Silicone 'antifouling' like Silic One from Hempel Ilona General Sailing Forum 21 28-06-2018 05:41
Silicone based anti-foul midgeandmichele Our Community 2 05-09-2016 10:12
What Kind of Boat - Based on Covestripes alone DDabs Challenges 7 30-11-2014 10:52
Mfgr Says Use Only Silicone! WTH...Everyone Here Says Don't Use Silicone. boatsail Monohull Sailboats 60 01-06-2013 13:18

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.