Stove: Electric vs Propane

[Pblais]

I bypassed the automatic shutoff on the sniffer because it responded to diesel fumes and just about everything else. It still gives me a warning light however, it just no longer secures my propane.

If this is an older Sintex unit you can call customer service. The older units had sensor failure problems. They don't go off because they sense diesel they go off because they are busted. They offered to sell be a whole new unit at 50% off. That is slightly better then the best discounted price I ever saw. You can disable the sensors yet still use the solenoid. The solenoid has a purpose beyond just sensing.

[clockwork orange]

Only a very selfish, inconsiderate, jackass would even consider installing an electric stove on any boat that intends to spend even one night in an anchorage where there is any possability at all that running a generator may ruin other cruisers ability to enjoy a peaceful evening. A considerate cruiser would only run a genset if they are the only boat in the anchorage or at sea away from other boats.Unfortunatly there are an awful lot of people out there who think only of themselves and f#@k everyone else.
Steve.

[zeehag]

propane, of course--i dont even like electric stoves in houses ! i had a chris craft with electric everything and a genset that ran quietly--but there is no way i would voluntarily place an electric stove into a boat--not just for the electricity usage but for the efficiency of cooking--propane with a solenoid and NO ELECTRIC (sheeeesh--this was a no brainer!!!!!)

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Even in a house, electric is slow to heat and cool, and slow to change temp.
Any knowledgeable cook will tell you gas is best.

Steve B.

A more knowledgeable cook will tell you induction is best - faster, more even, more controllable and twice as energy-efficient. Add to that there's no open flames, or flammable vapours to worry about and they don't tend to heat the surrounding air. Of course a genset would be required, but if you already run your genny daily this would not be an insurmountable problem. Propane is not without its downsides - it's dangerous, it's often harder to obtain and requires specialized storage. As with most boaty things - it's all about which compromises you wish to make.

[s/v Beth]

Gas- and don't disable the safety. Better ventilation, new sensor, anything but lowering the safety level! I have seen the result of a boat fire.
Just my two cents.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

A more knowledgeable cook will tell you induction is best - faster, more even, more controllable and twice as energy-efficient. Add to that there's no open flames, or flammable vapours to worry about and they don't tend to heat the surrounding air. Of course a genset would be required, but if you already run your genny daily this would not be an insurmountable problem. Propane is not without its downsides - it's dangerous, it's often harder to obtain and requires specialized storage. As with most boaty things - it's all about which compromises you wish to make.

propane is very easy to obtain in other places than usa--it is the main cooking fuel in mexico, caribean and other places...is not inefficient and turns off immediately, as opposed to electric stoves, which remain HOT for long time and require much more electricity than most boats produce.
with the current safety measures and a working brain, propane is the ONLY workable fuel for cooking if you plan on cruising anywhere outside usa ...have fun and smooooth sailing!!

[Reality Check]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

A more knowledgeable cook will tell you induction is best - faster, more even, more controllable and twice as energy-efficient. Add to that there's no open flames, or flammable vapours to worry about and they don't tend to heat the surrounding air. Of course a genset would be required, but if you already run your genny daily this would not be an insurmountable problem. Propane is not without its downsides - it's dangerous, it's often harder to obtain and requires specialized storage. As with most boaty things - it's all about which compromises you wish to make.

Not sure which planet your more knowledgeable cooks come from but Never in my rather long life have I ever seen a "knowledgeable Cook" who would prefer or use an electric source. No restaurant I know of, (I'm part owner in one) uses electric stoves... it is always gas because they are better controlled, faster and more efficient.... These places are in business to be cost and time efficient and electric systems sure do not work for them and it doesn't work well for the majority of sailboats.

this is a no brainer....

[gosstyla]

Lodesman, I agree if you have a genset induction cooking has several advantanges over propane:
more energy-efficient and little energy used to heat the galley,
no open flame - don't have the trouble keeping flame lit with hatches open,
no hassles of maintaining a second fuel onboard,
no hassles with obtaining fuel or compatible connectors,
can adjust heat to lower and higher temps than with propane,
and it is as fast and controllable (maybe more so) than gas.

However, I have not used it and wonder about possible disadvantages. The Dashews on their new 85' FPB experimented with induction and seemed to think it had possibilities, but I noticed recently they are using propane. I don't know why they decided not to use induction.

Also, Victron Energy used induction hobs as one of the loads when testing various gensets about a year ago. I believe those test indicated the induction hobs required high start up loads and also generated RF.

[Solitude]

I have a smaller boat used, for not more than a week or so at a time. Often its a weekend out to the islands. We had a large 3 burner gas stove with oven on board. Propane lead forward to the very large anchor locker. I imagine the idea is the anchor locker is self draining so if the tank leaked it would spill out. It had a smaller 5 pound tank. This usually lasted about 10 to 12 days or so. Propane is easy to get here and costs very little.

I removed this set up, as there was no sniffer or solenoid and the PO had done the gas fitting. It wasn’t one continuous hose and I simply didn’t trust it. We probably can agree fire is one of the most dangerous situations onboard. We don’t bake while cruising for our shorter trips and the stove took a lot of space. I removed it as well. We primarily Bbq and use a stove. The space where the stove and oven were, now contains a cooler (fits perfect). And I extended the counter to create a space for a folding Coleman fold and stow stove, to sit over it. I kept the other one for the next owner.

I now use the little “screw on bottles”. The process is simple. Screw the bottle on. Cook. Screw the bottle off. Place outside the cockpit (in case of leaks). This may sound complex but we really don’t find it an issue at all and we know the gas is always secure. It’s very hard not to notice the bottle is still screwed on. We don’t cook during our short passage making.

I’m sure many larger cruisers use safe secure set up with solenoids, sniffers, ovens etc. I think this method is simple and safe. I can't imagine the use of electrial and I really don't like pulling into a beautiful peacefull setting to anchor and hearing a generator.

If you need to use a generator go to a marina for the night!

Thoughts ?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by zeehag

.......
with the current safety measures and a working brain, propane is the ONLY workable fuel for cooking if you plan on cruising anywhere outside usa ...have fun and smooooth sailing!!

So far I have stayed out of this debate as I don't care much for either electric or gas but I must challenge this statement; to my mind, kerosine is ALSO a very workable fuel if one has a working brain and is much safer than gas. Yes I know it has some drawbacks but so do all the others.

[stillbuilding]

Well, two issues occur to me;
1. The first is that sooner or later gas failsafes get bypassed or fail and bye bye boat, We have all seen it too many times. On a boat which others might use the risks escalate.
2. Second is that the gas sniffer or solenoid screws up leaving you with no way to light the stove - happened to me when we were days out of harbour. Make sure you can bypass the gas safety system - which of course makes it illegal, cancels your insurance and takes you back to 1.

In view of above I am going with microwave for quickies, genset and induction cookers rather than just electric slow plates. Diesel might be a good option with Wallas cooktop being a front runner for me - except in the tropics.

[stillbuilding]

And by the way, most of Hong Kong and China cook very happily on induction cookers. Very economical and safe on a national and household basis. Cheap as chips to buy and run.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Reality Check

Not sure which planet your more knowledgeable cooks come from but Never in my rather long life have I ever seen a "knowledgeable Cook" who would prefer or use an electric source. No restaurant I know of, (I'm part owner in one) uses electric stoves... it is always gas because they are better controlled, faster and more efficient.... These places are in business to be cost and time efficient and electric systems sure do not work for them and it doesn't work well for the majority of sailboats.

this is a no brainer....

Don't let your rather long life close your mind to new possibilities. Here's an article from the Toronto Star: TheStar.com | living | Induction burners not just for top chefs any more

It names a number of top restaurants that use induction - some of them are situated at the tops of skyscrapers, where running gas lines is deemed unsafe and/or impractical; one is the 360 Restaurant on the CN Tower. It also shows that the Humber College's Canadian Centre of Culinary Arts and Science (a cooking school) has switched to induction, citing it as the wave of the future. Hardly futuristic as it's been used in Europe and Asia for decades.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by zeehag

propane is very easy to obtain in other places than usa--it is the main cooking fuel in mexico, caribean and other places...is not inefficient and turns off immediately, as opposed to electric stoves, which remain HOT for long time and require much more electricity than most boats produce.
with the current safety measures and a working brain, propane is the ONLY workable fuel for cooking if you plan on cruising anywhere outside usa ...have fun and smooooth sailing!!

Don't confuse "efficiency" with "convenience". Yes propane is convenient, but its energy-efficiency is only 30-40%, whereas induction is around 90%, making it the 'greener' choice. An induction cooktop does not actually heat up to do the job - it heats the pot directly; the cooktop only gets heated from being in contact with the hot pot.

I question also your claims about its availability - camping in Europe years back it was near impossible to find propane canisters; they only had Campingaz, which IINM is butane. Maybe that's changed, but either way I'd like more assurances that propane is as widely available as you say. Diesel fuel is truly universal.

I'm not saying that this option is usable for everyone - but it's an option for some. Diesel stoves like the Wallas are also a good option for some. Propane is NOT the ONLY way to go. Please have an open mind.

[aboutgone]

to bring the thread to a close ..........i thank all of you for the great info...i just wanted to know opinions on the boat i was looking at .....but if i do install a new stove, i will go with induction,or diesel...or propane.........LOL