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04-06-2010, 19:36
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Atlantic 42 Catamaran
Posts: 285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
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Forgive me for being late to the conversation, but isn't that a pump from a Yanmar? Don't they: 1) already use an O-ring seal and 2) attach with the plate facing the engine making it hard (really, really, really hard) to see or replace the impeller with them mounted on the engine? Indeed, my experience with these pumps is that the quickest and best way to change the impeller is to remove the pump from the engine which requires removing two bolts and two hoses. Since you need tools out to do that anyway and since it takes just a few seconds to remove the plate using the screw driver which is already in your hand once you have the pump off the motor, what's the point of having speed nuts? Just wondering...
Tom
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04-06-2010, 20:06
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#17
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
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In defence, your Honor, I have used Speed Seals on a couple of Ford-Lehmans.
On Yanmars it is easier to remove the pump to change the impeller
As far as the slots, they probably discontinued this idea as many were probably overtightend......Anybody who has put a wrench on Volvo Pump knows the pain of shearing off those tiny machine screws.
Improper tightening is not grounds for condemning a product, in my opinion.
I have submittited ideas to companies with my opinion of how they might improve their product....I have always gotten a positive response.
BTW don't fire up your flamethrowers.....
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05-06-2010, 12:13
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 152
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Speed Seal
Tom
I would suggest that why they removed the slot is irrelavent. The simple fact is they advertised the cover with a slot, and any buyer should be able to expect to get what was advertised. That is my "ruling".
The gentleman suggesting pump removal has a good point!
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05-06-2010, 12:58
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Atlantic 42 Catamaran
Posts: 285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabend
Tom
I would suggest that why they removed the slot is irrelavent. The simple fact is they advertised the cover with a slot, and any buyer should be able to expect to get what was advertised. That is my "ruling".
The gentleman suggesting pump removal has a good point!
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Am I the "Tom" you're addressing? (I should probably use a more unique handle).
Anyway, you'll get no argument from me one way or the other on the slots. I can understand why a company might be unhappy to have folks tearing the threads out of $300 pump bodies (assuming that's why the slots were removed) and products do get improved over time but advertising should always show the product correctly. And, customer service should have explained their reasoning to you and given you satisfactory options.
But, I was addressing a more fundamental issue. The photo originally posted by Gord is of a Yanmar (Johnson) belt driven water pump. With respect for both Gord and Practical Sailor anyone who has actually serviced one of these pumps should know that even if it worked perfectly a speed seal would be of marginal use on them. First, these pumps already use O-ring seals on the covers and IME they are easy to fit and never fail (the lip seals fail, the bearings fail, the covers don't). Second, because the pump is installed with the cover facing the engine there is no good way to service this pump on the motor so quick tool free impeller changes are out of the question. AFIK, the advantages of the speed seal are supposed to be the O-ring replacing fiddly paper or cork gaskets and the ability to inspect or change the impeller w/o tools. Yet, the most popular marine diesels already use O-ring sealed backing plates and on them at best the expensive knurled hand nuts save the time it takes to remove two machine screws in a five minute operation... I understand that on many engines the sea water pump is installed so that the back of the pump is accessible. On these engines a Speed Seal might make some sense. But photos suggesting they would be useful on Yanmar's belt driven sea water pumps strike me as misleading. Or m I missing something?
Tom
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05-06-2010, 14:49
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL currently CLODs [cruisers living on dirt]
Posts: 423
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I have been using speed seals on two boats for over 20yrs. The advantage on mine is no gaskets (westerbeke then a perkins) and no tools. It's worth it to me to not have to hold and/or align a screwdriver in a seaway. Does not happen often but once is enough.
__________________
Jon
S/Y Sirius
Moody 47
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05-06-2010, 15:05
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 1,594
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I have a Perkins. The first time I changed out the impeller, I decided that the sloted screws had to go. Hex heads have worked great since then. I don't get why they were sloted screws in the first place. And my hex heads have made anything else a mute point for me. The O-Ring thing sounds good, but not justifiable to me. It's just too simple now.
__________________
Minggat
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05-06-2010, 15:16
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chesapeake & BVI
Boat: Cal 34 & Pearson 424
Posts: 240
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FWIW
My Westerbeke 30 also "requires" removal of the pump to change the cover. I find it very difficult to re-tension the pump afterwards, too. I was just about to order a Speedseal, now I am not so sure....
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05-06-2010, 16:02
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cormorant Island, BC, Canada
Boat: Lancer 44 Motorsailer
Posts: 1,878
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I have often looked at those and thought they would be a good idea. I just finished replacing an impeller on a Johnson pump that is used on my Panda genset. Six slotted screws with not enough room to work in. I use a small ratchet type handle with an inserted flat blade screwdriver bit in it. bought this tool especially for the job.While working in that tight space I couldn't help but dream about this system. Now I am not sure.
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05-06-2010, 16:12
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#24
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,046
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Awww, you guys, quit your belly achin' about changing impellers. A little time, a few elementary tools, a little rum, a few curses and you'll do it fine every time.
OK, I'll admit to once having to use an impact screwdriver to remove the damned little cover screws, and dropping one into an oily bilge. But, hey, that almost never happens :-)
Keep in mind that poor chap I know of on a charter catamaran in the BVI. After a repowering job, the new larger engine just fit but the cover on the water pump">raw water pump wound up less than an inch from a non-removable watertight bulkhead. No way to get the cover off or to get the pump off the engine in that position, either.
To change an impeller, he had to uncouple the shaft, loosen the motor mounts, slide the engine away from the bulkhead, remove and replace the impeller and, of course, put everything back. Including a re-alignment of the engine coupling/shaft. Took a professional mechanic the better part of the day to do all this :-) True story.
Bill
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05-06-2010, 18:27
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,992
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Are the screws so unique one can't get spares in a regular shop?
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05-06-2010, 18:30
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Trismus 37
Posts: 763
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fitting SS allenhead screws and grinding down an allen key to the required length if accessability is a problem and coating with lanocote or sheep grease as we call it will preclude any problems. As long as the screws are done up evenly they don't need to be over tightened.
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05-06-2010, 19:15
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 152
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Speed Seal
Tom,
I thought your idea about removing the pump might have merit, and I plan to give it a try on my engine. My other response was to "Chief Engineer". To someone else's question, the Speedseal screws are unique in the they are large and knurled. I you can't get your hand or something else around them it would be nice to have the slot option to remove them. As noted above, I offered to slot the screws myself if Speedseal would send me a set of four and they refused. I will likely slot the current screws next time I change the impeller. Some yanmar engines have the pump facing forward which makes changing the impeller a piece of cake.
Bob
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05-06-2010, 20:12
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#29
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
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05-06-2010, 20:57
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,265
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I've owned sailboats since 1987.
Sailed all over Puget Sound, the San Juans, Canadian Gulf Islands, Barkley Sound, down the coast to Mexico, all up and down the West coast of Mexico following the sun, 15,000 miles in
four years. Sold that boat, bought the Dragonfly. Put ten years on this boat, including about 600 engine hours.
Maybe I just depend too much on solar panels and wind, but in all that sailing, I haven't EVER had to replace a raw water pump impeller. Not even ONE.
I check them from time to time and they're fine.
How weird is THAT !?!?!?!!?
__________________
'You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
Mae West
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