Marine Insurance

[Rick Mark]

Have just had a look at the latest Coastal Passage (yachting newspaper) and can't believe what I've seen advertised. DG Marine are again advertising insurance too good to be true just to help us boat owners out. Please, if you deal with this company, do your homework. I insured with them a few years ago, and am still paying for it!

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sctpc

Yes I have come to that same conclusion, But I can not get insurance for my boat in Melbourne Australia at all as every other insurance (all insurance is scam also ) will Not insure my boat on a mooring, therefor Edward William won so I can still use a dock. Try and go to a marina without insurance.

You can't get insurance on a mooring? Is this a location thing? I'm with Club Marine and they insure my 36 footer on a swing mooring. I have to have proof I have it inspected every two years. But no problem in insuring it and noting its on a swing.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

You can't get insurance on a mooring? Is this a location thing? I'm with Club Marine and they insure my 36 footer on a swing mooring. I have to have proof I have it inspected every two years. But no problem in insuring it and noting its on a swing.

I'm almost convinced the insurance co's use mystical frogs or something to determine whom they'll insure. I have ridgy-didge legit insurance above 26 degrees South on a swing mooring (with a named storm exclusion) with a 30+ year old boat which is considered near impossible to get. I've recommended my insurance company to at least three others in the same mooring field and all have been rejected so it's obvious that these companies use many factors to determine suitable risk. They are betting you won't come to grief and make a claim, after all

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

You can't get insurance on a mooring? Is this a location thing? I'm with Club Marine and they insure my 36 footer on a swing mooring. I have to have proof I have it inspected every two years. But no problem in insuring it and noting its on a swing.

I had major trouble getting insurance, I did end up getting hull only comp with YOUI after trying no less than 10 others and club just laughed even with rigging check engine and hull reports. OH and parks vic make me pull my mooring every year and supply a certificate to them so it would be no problem to give that to an insurance person.

[Sherbo]

Well can anyone suggest a good insurance company to use?

[Triumphant]

I was quite surprised to see the lastest Caribbean Compass magazine is carry advertisements for Edward William considering their reputation

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Triumphant

I was quite surprised to see the lastest Caribbean Compass magazine is carry advertisements for Edward William considering their reputation

Magazines don't guarrantee the quality of the products advertised in them, they'll run an add as long as they pay their advertising fees. It is up to you, the consumer, to research any product that you purchase for your boat. In the case of Marine Insurance, that means knowing both the rating of the underwriter and the customer service reputation of the agent that represents them.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Sherbo

Well can anyone suggest a good insurance company to use?

You seem to be in the States, so I'm not sure. I'm in Australia. Club Marine are good which is who I'm with, but I'm starting to believe their quite expensive. Claims are easy, at least that's my experience.

AAMI I've heard is good, no hassle insurance and the new Youi too.

[Moody46CC]

A previous post said Tabby Cat (aka Susan) was as good an authority as is on the internet re boat insurance. It is probably not a simply question, but do most "agreed value" policies exclude or include consequential damage loss? To my understanding, the purpose of insurance is to cover catastrophic loss, such as that resulting from a collision or fire, but a ruptured hose, frozen seacock, or failure of a PPS seal could result in total loss. I don't believe most policies would cover such losses, holding that maintenance is a duty of the owner. For that matter, so is the exercise of proper seamanship and navigation which would eliminate many losses due to collision and grounding. Of course, there is flotsam in the ocean, but most collisions can be avoided. Moreover, given the damage an electrical fire can do, it would seem prudent for a company to demand proof of repair/upgrade/installation from a ABYC-certified electrician and the like before covering a vessel after any repairs or additions were made. That does not seem to be the case. I have heard agents say that if one has a history of maintaining one's boat (not too sure how to prove that), the company would "most likely" take care of a loss if the boat sank due to a ruptured hose. "Most likely" is not the same as "would," and it is quite contrary to the written exclusions section of the policy.

I am aware there are many variables in underwriting, ranging from reputation of the vessel manufacturer, age of the boat, area of navigation, owner's qualifications and training and the like. Still, there have to be some general statistics, so the question to Tabby Cat and anyone with knowledge, is what percentage of fixed value policies cover consequential damages and for those that do, how much higher (in percentage terms) over the premium would such coverage run?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Moody46CC

A previous post said Tabby Cat (aka Susan) was as good an authority as is on the internet re boat insurance. It is probably not a simply question, but do most "agreed value" policies exclude or include consequential damage loss? To my understanding, the purpose of insurance is to cover catastrophic loss, such as that resulting from a collision or fire, but a ruptured hose, frozen seacock, or failure of a PPS seal could result in total loss. I don't believe most policies would cover such losses, holding that maintenance is a duty of the owner. For that matter, so is the exercise of proper seamanship and navigation which would eliminate many losses due to collision and grounding. Of course, there is flotsam in the ocean, but most collisions can be avoided. Moreover, given the damage an electrical fire can do, it would seem prudent for a company to demand proof of repair/upgrade/installation from a ABYC-certified electrician and the like before covering a vessel after any repairs or additions were made. That does not seem to be the case. I have heard agents say that if one has a history of maintaining one's boat (not too sure how to prove that), the company would "most likely" take care of a loss if the boat sank due to a ruptured hose. "Most likely" is not the same as "would," and it is quite contrary to the written exclusions section of the policy.

I am aware there are many variables in underwriting, ranging from reputation of the vessel manufacturer, age of the boat, area of navigation, owner's qualifications and training and the like. Still, there have to be some general statistics, so the question to Tabby Cat and anyone with knowledge, is what percentage of fixed value policies cover consequential damages and for those that do, how much higher (in percentage terms) over the premium would such coverage run?

I'm only speaking from a local (Australian perspective) but I can't see insurance covering any repairs, but my insurance with Club Marine certainly covers loss and damage that results from a failure of seacocks and fires of electrics. Starting in 2014 my insurance is now requiring my boat (they advise any boat that's more than 20 years old) to have a bi annual survey. I just had one done this year in order to increase it's value and he noted 'no certification on 240v supply). Which suggests to me, if I have a catastropic fire whilst using my 240v supply I would not be insured until I have it certified by an electrician. The same with my LPG installation, which has no certification by a licensed plumber which I intend to rectify.

As for the 12v System, I'm not aware I can get that certified anywhere, or with anyone. It's quite legal to work on 12v here so I believe that's ok.

So, my insurance seems to definitely cover 'consequential damage', as long as I have the records that I'm maintaining my vessel.

I've spoken to my insurance company and they have recommended I keep all receipts of what I purchase with new items, so if I ever have to I can show with proof how old something is. My surveyor suggested once every two years running a video through the boat, which will show it's well maintained. Also, picture stills of hall outs etc. When he surveyed it my mast was out being refurbished and he told me to keep the receipt to show it was refurbished in 2014. Because he said if I ever loose my rigging the first thing they will ask is when did you last have it serviced.

As for your second question around cost increases to insurance. I don't know the answer. I had the option when getting insurance of not including rigging on my ketch, but I've checked and there was no option about what your calling 'consequential damage'.

That's me anyway.

[Moody46CC]

Thanks, Rustic Charm.

You are right--we're not talking repairs but serious loss, catastrophic loss.

My agent said keeping records would indeed help. I've computerized my records, scanning in all the bills/receipts for services and parts. Document every step and date when hauling out and commissioning and doing any work. Photos too. Keep copies of surveys. All this seems to be leading to show that one does maintenance, hence if something fails, it is a latent defect of some piece of equipment rather than neglect or deterioration. Most policies cover latent defects but not neglect, deterioration, wear and tear, or corrosion. I tend to worst-case things when money is involved, especially with sums as large as a boat. I would feel more comfortable with a policy that covered consequential damage.

Such policies can be had for a steep premium. Hence my interest in knowing if I'm the only owner worried about this, thus my question to Tabby Cat about the percentage of policies written that do cover consequential damages and the relative cost of such (100% of usual premium? or more?).

Adding to the complication, I'm not sure how to compare USA costs/policies to those of Oz. But I appreciate the interest.

[Al Golden]

Most of the first rate policies in the US cover consequential damage now.

[Butto]

Edward William/ Northern Reef are a Scam. They are registered in Uraguay, pretend to operate under English Law but have no British address. They operate out of an office on Costa del Sol in Spain. They have a 'Shelf' company in UK called NRIC -at Great Yarmouth, with company Assets less than 3,000 pounds. NRIC are their 'Independant' assessors who are professional run around experts who delay forever, lie and bewilder and finally recommend no action. Steer clear of these lying cheating pirates.


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[NS2018]

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[TabbyCat]

Hey Northstar, you appear to be an agency. What actual underwriters do you represent?