life raft re-certification costs

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

I think that $1500 seems excessively high for a four man raft. Every raft will be more expensive to repack on the years when the dated items (food, batteries, flares, water) is due to expire, and of course your raft can't be repacked for a three year interval with flares that will expire in two years. But the bottom line is that you generally pay retail prices for all of the items with an expiration date on specific anniversaries.

Switlik has somewhat changed the rules by having expiring items on the outside of the vacuum pack, they they can be replaced without digging into the vaccum pack, thus extending the time between repacks. This is true on their most recent models, but you have to be aware that some of your safety gear is packed in the valise, and not inside the raft. Don't cut away the valise without stripping it of gear.

While I appreciate the thrifty folks who have the guts to perform their own repacking, I think this is pretty asinine. Life rafts are highly technical devices which require more than just replacing gear and checking for air retention. Life rafts do have recalls from time to time, and can suffer from corrosion and fabric deterioration which may not be easy to detect. I'd just as soon take out my own appendix as repack my own life raft.

Cheers,

Chuck

Chuck, what do you mean by “don't cut away the valise?” Are you talking about during an emergency
deployment?

In any event I am being told a 3 year re-cert requires inflation of the raft, so how does having gear inside the valise but outside the raft make any sense?

thanks

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Dani-lu

I just bought the offshore 4 person switlik. Made in USA. Certification every 5 years and $750. Switlik now uses compressed air instead of CO2. There is a visual gauge that I can see, confirming it is full. No worries of did the CO2 leak thru a pinhole. Not very likely, but one less thing to worry about and cheaper cost of ownership.

certification every 5 years instead of Viking’s every 3 years is a HUGE improvement. As is being able to see the air cylinder gauge from the outside. But I wonder how they can guarantee a flat $750 since there can be a range of different issues once they open it up?

[Journeyman]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

One of the cheapest and best places to get a life raft re-certified and tested on the west coast is just north of Ensenada, MX. There is a shop there run by the ‘bomberos’ firemen from Ensenada who will do it for around $800 which includes the consumables!
They want you to be present when they test the inflatability of the raft so you know what it looks like when filled with air.
We brought along a couple of boxes of dos equos beer and had a party on the beach with the bomberos and their families... shot off the old flares, had a beach barbecue and added cat food to the consumable repack! Fun afternoon with all the kids but ran out of beer and had to make a beer run!
I highly recommend the place just north of the hardware store but past the last highway tolls stop on the ocean side of the highway.
Phil

Phil, how do they go about getting the certifcation processed? My understanding is any 3rd party shop has to go online to Viking and fill out a re-certification form attesting to what they have done. At least that is what I was told. Did you walk away with some kind of document approved by your life raft manufacturer?

Also, a yacht services company in La Paz gave me one of the two $1500 quotes I have received. I was told they send the raft up to some place in Ensenada for the re-cert and then ship it back to you in La Paz.

I wonder if they use the same bomperos shop?

Now that I have shipped my raft up to San Diego it may indeed bd worth getting a quote from bomperos.

How would I get in contact with these guys from San Diego?

thanks!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dani-lu

I just bought the offshore 4 person switlik. Made in USA. Certification every 5 years and $750. Switlik now uses compressed air instead of CO2. There is a visual gauge that I can see, confirming it is full. No worries of did the CO2 leak thru a pinhole. Not very likely, but one less thing to worry about and cheaper cost of ownership.

The 5 year repack is really nice. Looks like you are paying close to double the initial price for the Switlik over a Viking.
Is the fixed repack price worldwide or just in the US?

[ArmyDaveNY]

Would it be less expensive to have it shipped to the UK and sent back?

[hellosailor]

Air instead of CO2 is problematic. Air has that highly corrosive oxygen mixed into it, and CO2 does not. So you get questions of whether it was fully dessicated, and whether the oxygen is oxidizing anything. CO2 is still a cheap and common industrial gas, should not be an issue unless "air" makes hazmat shipping less necessary.

A visible pressure gauge is also a mixed blessing. Now there are more parts, more seals, more stuff to go wrong. That's why compressed gasses are often sealed in pressure bottles and they leave you to WEIGH the sealed bottle from time to time. (Of course that's not possible with a packed raft, you have to trust it might have been sealed properly.)

And I apologize to Switlik if I'm confusing them, but were they the highly respected company that had some ownership issues about five years ago, and pretty much went AWOL along with customer orders? Or was that someone else blackening the entire industry?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chuck Hawley

. . . and of course your raft can't be repacked for a three year interval with flares that will expire in two years. . . .

Who said?



Of course it can.


Quality flares stored in dry and cool conditions last much longer than those stored in the tropics (for example), but the expiration dates are set for worst-case but just within the specified limits storage conditions.



I have a big collection of flares on board, some of them dating back to 2009 when I bought my boat. I set off a bunch of those in Greenland this summer and they all worked perfectly.



I would not be bothered in the least by having flares in my life raft which were only one year out of date at the time of next service. These flares are just backups to backups anyway -- I keep fresh flares in my grab bag, and anyway I have multiple EPIRBs/PLB's, a DSC handheld, AIS MOB beacons, an electronic flare, sat phone, and other signalling devices. Being anal about flare expiration dates is not worth the money, in my opinion -- it's a considerable expense, better spent on other signalling devices.



Don't get me wrong -- unlike some people, I don't think pyrotechnic flares are irrelevant. A parachute flare in the English Channel will trigger a grandiose and instantaneous SAR operation. But they should be put into context with other signalling means which you have available. And anyway, in my storage conditions (and BTW I vacuum pack my flares with desiccant bags), I don't consider them really expired until two years past the printed date.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Dougtiff

Well, yes, life raft station's are a rip off for sure, its always the statement, we hafto use our product's, because the coast guard requires it, which is bull **** for a pleasure vessel, and they know it, after watching rafts being serviced in singapore by great guys, who do commercial ships, and allowing me to participate in my raft, i learned what to do, check for corrosion., weight the cylinder, pump up the raft with air, ect., i do my own, the most difficult thing is, repacking, so it fits back in the case.

We were quoted $2500 in the US. Avon 8 offshore. The insurance cost to the repackers due to possible litigation and the training cost for each employee to be certified is the driver for high costs. It is also why there are so few repackers. Try to get one serviced on the Great Lakes.

[hellosailor]

Dockhead-

"(and BTW I vacuum pack my flares with desiccant bags)"

If you really want to put icing on the cake, toss in one or two oxygen absorber packets before you vacuum seal. That's pretty much ensures any residual oxygen will be absorbed and bound (it forms "rust" in the packet) and if the packet isn't totally impermeable, it keeps on absorbing more. They're sold online by the mylar bagful. Once that bag has been opened, the rest keep best if they're tightly packed in a mason jar or other hermetic container.

[liferaft]

I used to own a life raft service facility and it was a difficult business to make a profit regardless of what everyone feels are super high pricing. In the US there is this little thing called "product liability" which drives many decisions. Even if a service station is the most cautious in all of their efforts, bad things can happen and you need to protect yourself.

That includes insurance. At my shop that ran about $50-$60 for every raft we worked on. Then you need to be approved by each and every manufacturer whose product you want to service. They require periodic training, buying manuals and facility audits (where the facility pays for the auditor).

Once set up to service a specific brand the service station must follow the manufacturers manual. Some brands like Winslow require that the station buy ALL of the parts from them. That includes flashlight batteries, flares, anti-seasick tablets..... While it makes sense to buy components that they manufacture, forcing a service station to purchase generic products like flares is crazy.

Manufacturers have also figured out that they can require (through their manuals) that service stations replace items that in reality might never need replacing. They also require that service stations stock parts that they will never use. Zodiac wanted me to stock parts for a series of rafts I wasn't even approved to service. They were on their list so I had to buy them or they would revoke my approval.

Then the manufacturers require that the service station pay a royalty for each raft they service. This is called the "service certificate", a piece of paper that can cost the service station over $100.

The other trend in the industry is for company owned service facilities. Viking seems to be the leader in this trend but their large commercial competitor Survitec is right behind. Even Winslow wants to force all of their customers to send rafts back to Florida for service so that they can increase their profitability.

As far as I know, all the major manufacturers have web sites that list their approved facilities. Prior to dropping my raft off with anyone, I would check to make sure the raft manufacturer had trained them and that they had access to spare parts and technical support. Yes, even after 30+ years of servicing rafts we frequently required technical support. Getting rafts serviced outside the US is generally less expensive. Product liability insurance isn't the big issue it is here and many items like flares are just less expensive (why I was never able to figure out). Judging from the work I saw, if the technicians were properly trained their work was fine. Going to a facility that is not factory approved is another (horror) story. One would be better served not having the raft serviced.

[SharAndy]

Gaia - Steel boat not always unsinkable. Ask the couple from I met in the Turks from Denmark in their steel hulled sailboat who hit a container in the middle of the night off the coast of Portugal. They fully sank in 4 minutes. One MayDay; launched the lift raft; grabbed their cold water wet suits and jumped into the raft. Russian freighter heard the MayDay and found them the next day.

[George DuBose]

I paid 300 euros to a Dutch outfit after my Givens liferaft fell overboard, didn't inflate, but all the aluminum inside the raft was corroded beyond use.

They first tried to sell me a new raft as they had never seen a Givens in the flesh, but when they inflated it and saw the quality of the construction, they agreed that it had many more years of service.

They replaced all the corroded parts, let me add extra items I wanted, reduced the amount of drinking water and that lightened the package quite a bit. I told them that I have water in the ditch bag and for the next few years I won't be crossing any oceans and don't need more than 2-3 days water for four sailors.

...and they shrink-wrapped it.

I have no connection to jacobslifesaving.com other than being a happy and grateful customer.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by J.Kitchens

I'm healthy, I exercise, I eat mostly healthy, I do my best to take care of myself. I also pay $3000+ per year for health/dental insurance. I go to the doctor once a year for a checkup and I go to the dentist twice a year for a checkup. Is this worth $3000+? Nope but I pay it anyway; it's insurance.

A quick search of the internet tells me a Viking RescYou 4 Person Life Raft costs $2350 plus lets say $150 for shipping. Total $2500.

People say maintenance is roughly $1500 every three years and the life raft has a life of twelve years. Total $6000.

Total cost of Life Raft ownership over twelve years = $8500
Total Monthly cost of life raft ownership = $59.03

For the low cost of $59.03 a month you are insuring yourself against having to tread water if you sink your boat.

Are you sure you sure you are not an insurance salesman ?
That or you are hook , line , and sinker for the schpeel ...

[double u]

"...it's a captive market!" the service guy told me when I nearly fainted at his service fees...

[californiasusie]

We just paid 1500 plus for a Viking 8 man to be recertified. When the guy told me what it would cost I wished I hadn't brought it in because, how bad could it be? I had thought it would be a Coast Guard violation to have an expired life raft. (No, it isn't) But then, I asked to see it when they opened it for re cert. Lo and Behold, there was a hole cut in it from the last time we had it recertifed in Ft Lauderdale. There is a knife in the raft as part of the equipment. The knife was inserted incorrectly and cut a hole in the raft. We had left it for recert with 84 Boats Works Inc in Ft Lauderdale. I'm not sure if they did it or they sent it out to a contractor to recertify it. Anyway, if we ever had to use it, and imagine the conditions if we did, the first thing we would have had to deal with is repairing the hole. So, maybe I'll let it expire next time or maybe it will be too old to even recertify anymore. I don't know, just saying.