ITR Marine Heater Review and Installation

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

. . . Is anyone using those 6093 fans.... are they noisy?

You're asking the right questions. I have 3x Eberspacher fan coils in my boat for my hydronic system, and they are unpleasantly loud. I would give a lot for quieter ones, or radiators, if I had some place to put them.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Sea Eagle,
As you are a steel boat owner in Alaska, I'm interested in your thoughts about me mounting 2 of the heaters just under the cabin floors

Sketch shows Zones 3 and 4 Fans under the floor, which would then be drawing cooler air from the bilges rather than recirculating warmer air above,

Is that a bad idea that would cause excessive heat loss during the winter?

If ok, it saves a lot of precious storage space in accomodation

I will insulate those frame spaces under the waterline that do not already have insulation.

Cabin Fans Revision 2:
• I reduced the Zones down to 4 and used 4 x High Output 6093, to keep equipment all the same.

Is anyone using those 6093 fans.... are they noisy?

Pelagic, two of my zones are in the Salon/pilothouse, the largest, most central, and highest space on our center cockpit ketch.

One of the heat registers in the salon is mounted in the ceiling of the engine room/bilge. The only thing to worry about is odors- if you have a smelly bilge or engine area the fans will circulate that smell into your cabin.

All the other heat registers are mounted at floor level with the fans and hoses facing the hull, which means they are not drawing air from the cabin area.

The fans are quiet, the sound you hear is forced air coming out of the vents and any ducts.

An important consideration for mounting the hydronic heat registers is that they are best mounted where they can directly expel heated air into the cabin without any ducts. There is a tremendous heat loss with just a few feet of ductwork, not to mention it would be a lot louder with bigger fans needed and the sound of the air traveling in the ducts.

If you mount them in the floor, face them vertically so that the heated air is directly expelled into the cabin (you would have to cut a hole in the floor and install a vent). If you mount them horizontally you would need an elbow and a length of duct to reach a vertical surface for a vent.

For those unfamiliar with these units, in "winter mode" the burner heats and circulates coolant through hoses to the heat exchangers that are mounted where you want your heat to go. Our boat has 5 scattered throughout.

The heat exchanger has a fan or two that blows air over the heated tubes and that heated air is expelled into the cabin one of two ways- directly, by mounting the heat exchanger where you want your heater vent, or indirectly by using ductwork, in which case the heat loss is immense because the fans are small and not designed to push air long distances.

2 of our 5 zones have a length of ductwork (@5ft with an elbow) and the temp difference coming out of those ducts is @20-30 degrees less than the ones with no ductwork.

When our heating system is going, all five heat exchangers use @2amps 12v, which is wonderfully energy efficient, important to us because we live on the hook.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by SteelEagle

I think mounting under the floor would be best. Ours are mounted that way and it keeps air flowing all throughout the boat (especially important for us steelies) when it is cold, windows shut, and would otherwise be little to no airflow.

Yes, Marcell from ITR said that quite a few boats do that and in our case of sealed metal boats, moving air under the floorboards should keep everything dry and smelling sweet.

Also, noise is a plus. I cannot hear the air con cooling pump or the Fridge and Freezer compressors and barely hear the air con unit that is under
My teak and holly floorboards which are over 1" ply.
They dampen the noise very well.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You're asking the right questions. I have 3x Eberspacher fan coils in my boat for my hydronic system, and they are unpleasantly loud. I would give a lot for quieter ones, or radiators, if I had some place to put them.

Hi DH, you might find my Q&A notes with ITR useful:
Also SeaEagle mentioned that he hardly hears the fan in his cabin

I’d like to understand how to compare heating efficiency between your fan heaters and passive systems as I already have 24v Fans and air handlers in each area to circulate heat.

Passive systems is all about the surface area. Fan units deliver the heat much faster. You have to see what is best for you. There is more noise level and power draw with the active fan units.
You can place our high low switches on the fan units however they still draw the same power. A rheostat would not and you could look for that. The fan units do not draw much
I have attached them for you. The radiators do take up more space and you would have to use solenoids or valves to control heat by the thermostats.
Most people do use the cabin fans except our canal boat customers in the UK.


Your manual Notes: If a “passive” radiant heat system is desired (i.e., baseboard or fin and tube configurations), consult ITR for recommended installation procedures and design. A different zone control system and additional equipment are required for a passive radiant heat system.
• Can you provide me with dimensional drawings of all your Fan Heaters Attached and could you indicate what size Baseboard fin or Tube would be needed to replace assuming other fans are running if needed?
We state this because some passive systems can really restrict the fluid flow. Also more pluming is involved as you want to branch off to radiators and then come back in the main loop.
Most use a 3/4" copper fin and tube. However note 1 foot of Copper fin and tube is only 500 BTU. For our standard fan say 8700 BTU you would need 17 feet equivalent tube.

[Pelagic]

Thanks for the notes, I commented below:

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Pelagic, two of my zones are in the Salon/pilothouse, the largest, most central, and highest space on our center cockpit ketch.

One of the heat registers in the salon is mounted in the ceiling of the engine room/bilge. The only thing to worry about is odors- if you have a smelly bilge or engine area the fans will circulate that smell into your cabin.

I wont be mounting any heaters in ER and the Fwd and Aft subfloors all smell sweet and are perfectly dry. I think one of the benefits of being a liveaboard is that you have more time to keep it that way

All the other heat registers are mounted at floor level with the fans and hoses facing the hull, which means they are not drawing air from the cabin area.

The fans are quiet, the sound you hear is forced air coming out of the vents and any ducts.

What size ducting are you using 2" or 3"?

An important consideration for mounting the hydronic heat registers is that they are best mounted where they can directly expel heated air into the cabin without any ducts. There is a tremendous heat loss with just a few feet of ductwork, not to mention it would be a lot louder with bigger fans needed and the sound of the air traveling in the ducts.

My latest design version is to use just 4 of the Pn 6093 High Output Cabin Fans (1200 BTU/h each for 48,000 BTU/h for a 50,000 BTU heater.
Brochure attached, says that those units are normally ducted. Marcello commented that ducted units are actually quieter than Flush mounted units, but perhaps that is just for those high output fans. They will each have a hi and low Fan speed switch

Is anyone using the 6093 High Output Cabin Fan?

If you mount them in the floor, face them vertically so that the heated air is directly expelled into the cabin (you would have to cut a hole in the floor and install a vent). If you mount them horizontally you would need an elbow and a length of duct to reach a vertical surface for a vent.

Interesting Idea, manual says to mount cabin fans horizontally, but your way of mounting them under the floor would mean just one elbow at above floor vent vs two elbows. My guess is that it would be harder to purge cabin units if oriented Vertically, but I will check with Marcello,

For those unfamiliar with these units, in "winter mode" the burner heats and circulates coolant through hoses to the heat exchangers that are mounted where you want your heat to go. Our boat has 5 scattered throughout.

The heat exchanger has a fan or two that blows air over the heated tubes and that heated air is expelled into the cabin one of two ways- directly, by mounting the heat exchanger where you want your heater vent, or indirectly by using ductwork, in which case the heat loss is immense because the fans are small and not designed to push air long distances.

2 of our 5 zones have a length of ductwork (@5ft with an elbow) and the temp difference coming out of those ducts is @20-30 degrees less than the ones with no ductwork.

I think this is what i need to balance...Noise, loss of useful cabin storage space and efficiency

When our heating system is going, all five heat exchangers use @2amps 12v, which is wonderfully energy efficient, important to us because we live on the hook.

[Pelagic]

The Typhoon that hit the Philippines yesterday fizzled out to a Tropical Storm before it reached us in Subic, so we were lucky. But this one, not recurving so early in the year is a warning, that it will be a bad year!

• I finalized all my Cabin Heater Selection and placements (3 x 6093 & 3 x 6095)
  
• Decided against mounting Cabin Fans under the floor as what I gained in cabin storage, I lost in ducting runs.
  
• Also Decided to Flush Mount all Cabin Fans using either the 1048 or 1049 Face Plate Grill

Just waiting for carpentry installation advice from ITR on Depth needed when you include plumbing allowances using those silicone elbows.
Then I will know how low I can place Cabin Fan, as the Hull narrows in at bottom of Aft and Fwd Cabin Locations.

Good news is that they are slowly letting some of the workforce and businesses open up in Subic next week, so I should be able to place the order with ITR once I check and double check the installation with the help of a small carpenter that can get into those upside down spaces

Thanks All for your advice and always open to more

[SteelEagle]

Recently we had an issue where our ITR Hurricane II Combi heater stopped working and failed to light off at all. Each component appeared to test okay individually and there were no failure lights illuminated other than flame out, after a few failed start attempts. This resulted in many hours troubleshooting and many calls to ITR.

The compressor diaphragm had a slight tear in it which gave the appearance of working, but it was not moving quite enough air. Our unit has a Dynaflo 3032 compressor, which is $500 to replace. After a long search we found one vendor online which sells replacement diaphragms for $39, Woods Powr-Grip. Part number is 66197AM and they also carry a replacement head assembly with check valves, part number 66197. Maybe this will help someone from buying a new pump unneccessarily...

ITR was quite helpful over several phone calls and emails, including analyzing videos of the fuel spray pattern. Our unit is out of warranty at 7 years old and 2400 hours, big thumbs up to ITR for the help. We will carry a spare diaphragm now...

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

SteelEagle (great name!), the electric heating element in our Hurricane just heats the coolant inside the unit (for summer mode use) and is completely ineffective at helping to heat the coolant circulating in the hoses. Are you sure that yours helps heat your boat? If so, how?

While we waited for the replacement parts, we were able to heat our boat and water running the electric element continuously (on shore power). Seems the coolant in the unit circulates throughout the hoses in the boat too.

Cheers.