Insurance - Pantaenius USA - Non Renewal

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by RSH

Add us to the list of people just dropped by Pantaenius-got the notice in the mail yesterday. Our boat is a Lagoon 380 in Charleston (we stay out of the hurricane box during the season).

Aggravating. Exploring other options now, and have a call into our insurance broker.

My policy is through Traveler's and cost .6% of the insured value, which is north of $1mm. Deductible is $6,100. The vessel is over 50 years old, is steel, so there are lots of reasons why my costs s/b greater than others. Anyone paying 3% of insured value needs a new agent.

[blueblaze]

I am a cruiser and insurance agent, I have been successful writing policies this year with two different companies. If you’d like to chat more please email me at laura@legacyunderwriters.com. And I would be happy to help.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

I looked for liability only this year and was told it no longer exists in the U.S. Do you know of someone who does?

I am using BoatUS. Liability only, here. I pay $182/year on my Roberts 44.

[TabbyCat]

Yes, they are non-renwing many boats that have navigation below 30 degrees south.

Send me a PM if you'd like a quote form a differnet underwriter.

[Nicholson58]

Refer to #33 above. We were just dropped by Geico. They will no longer insure boats away from the US shore. If this means they insure on the eastern seaboard that would be nuts. We have had a condition in every policy that we are out of the hurricane zone each June - November. We have summered in Trinidad at Power Boat each year. Doesn’t matter, Geico is done and we are starting over again. New survey required. I don’t understand why insurance companies choose to cover any boat inside the zone during season. Their greed/stupidity has wrecked it for all.

[blueblaze]

If you need help find quotes on your insurance I would be happy to help. I am an insurance agent and cruiser in the Caribbean. Laura@legacyinderwriters.com

[CarlF]

Pantaenius USA is a not part of the corporate parent Pantaenius Group in Germany that is over 100 years old and so highly regarded by cruisers in UK and Europe. This from the Pantaenius Group website:

“** Pantaenius America Ltd. is a licensed insurance agent licensed in all 50 states. It is an independent corporation incorporated under the laws of New York and is a separate and distinct entity from any entity of the Pantaenius Group.”

This doesn’t mean that Pantaenius USA is bad — just that it is no more like Pantaenius in the rest of the world than any other US broker.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

I have found Pantaenius in Sydney to be excellent.

Pantaenius in the EU is also reputable. I hear they are franchises at least in the US, explaining their dismal record over there....

[Group9]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

I have a 35 ft Bertram and a 37 ft yawl with a million of liability each through Auto Owners. I am under the assumption that liability is ubiquitous throughout insurance land. It's dirt cheap compared to hull insurance.

By self insuring the hull there is no "mother may I" with the insurers. There is no uncertainty about coverage to cross the ocean or be in a zone prone to hurricanes. It's all on you. No hiring of attorneys when the insurance company wants to not pay. No nagging uncertainty sitting around wondering if something happens will the insurance cover this situation or wondering if it's a special exclusion that you didn't comprehend. Mental anguish is gone.

And, no one and I mean no one takes care of you like you!

We never did better hurricane preparation than the three years we went with liability only!

[Captain Bill]

I was dropped by Pantaenius in July and being Florida boat had a bit of trouble finding coverage again. I managed to get a policy to get me through the Hurricane season for a reasonable price, but it is US waters only. I'm still shopping for a policy that will include the Bahamas. I was paying just slightly less than 2% of value to Pantaenius, but pretty much everything that includes the Bahamas now is well north of 3%. Oddly enough my current insurer offers a rider to let me go to Grand Bahama and the Abacos and as far south in the Exumas to Blackpoint for only $150. So essentially now only the Northern Exumas, Andros, and the Berrys. While there's nothing wrong with those places I don't think I'm likely to spend my usual five months in the Bahamas as I've already pretty well explored these places. Between hurricane Dorian, the government increasing the entry fees, and the inability to get reasonably priced insurance, I think the cruising crowds in the Bahamas will be a bit light this year.

[sailcrazy]

FWIW, we "summer over" on the hard in Puerto Rico, ever since we came over from the Medd.....and have for the past 5 summers. We rode thru Irma, without damage, and sail the north and east area of the Caribbean during the season. We've been with Blue Water Ins , Juniper, Fla, the whole time, although we did have a problem right after Irma went thru. But Blue Water found us a full coverage policy, and we still have it. So far, we've had no claims, so I have no history of responsiveness, but so far so good.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

FWIW, we "summer over" on the hard in Puerto Rico, ever since we came over from the Medd.....and have for the past 5 summers. We rode thru Irma, without damage, and sail the north and east area of the Caribbean during the season. We've been with Blue Water Ins , Juniper, Fla, the whole time, although we did have a problem right after Irma went thru. But Blue Water found us a full coverage policy, and we still have it. So far, we've had no claims, so I have no history of responsiveness, but so far so good.

I just searched Blue Water insurance to see who they use as the underwriter. I stumbed into their Google reviews in tbe search, pretty poor and damning reviews.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Refer to #33 above. We were just dropped by Geico. They will no longer insure boats away from the US shore. If this means they insure on the eastern seaboard that would be nuts. We have had a condition in every policy that we are out of the hurricane zone each June - November. We have summered in Trinidad at Power Boat each year. Doesn’t matter, Geico is done and we are starting over again. New survey required. I don’t understand why insurance companies choose to cover any boat inside the zone during season. Their greed/stupidity has wrecked it for all.

Yes, their greed and stupidity has wrecked it for all.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Yes, their greed and stupidity has wrecked it for all.

I think it’s nothing more than statistics, and exposure.
Statistically if you insure a boat that is staying say in the Bahamas or BVI’s etc in the water during Hurricane season, there is a high likelihood of a claim.
Then probably you would want to limit the number of boats you have insured in one high risk of claim area, cause if that is the majority of your business, you may be wiped out with one Hurricane, so just like investing, they need to diversify.

However as I would just take it as a guess, that the majority of high dollar boats that stay in the water during Hurricane season, in Hurricane zones are charter boats, that it’s logical to assume that they are why the Insurence companies have decided to no longer insure boats in those areas.
At least that’s my belief.

However bet it’s not inexpensive to insure a house in a Hurricane zone either.
Probably like insuring a house in a flood zone, you can get Insurence, but it doesn’t cover floods, for that you have to buy special flood Insurence, that may be underwritten by the Government?
Cause it’s too expensive otherwise? Just don’t expect the same for our boats, even if it is your house.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think it’s nothing more than statistics, and exposure.
Statistically if you insure a boat that is staying say in the Bahamas or BVI’s etc in the water during Hurricane season, there is a high likelihood of a claim.
Then probably you would want to limit the number of boats you have insured in one high risk of claim area, cause if that is the majority of your business, you may be wiped out with one Hurricane, so just like investing, they need to diversify.

However as I would just take it as a guess, that the majority of high dollar boats that stay in the water during Hurricane season, in Hurricane zones are charter boats, that it’s logical to assume that they are why the Insurence companies have decided to no longer insure boats in those areas.
At least that’s my belief.

However bet it’s not inexpensive to insure a house in a Hurricane zone either.
Probably like insuring a house in a flood zone, you can get Insurence, but it doesn’t cover floods, for that you have to buy special flood Insurence, that may be underwritten by the Government?
Cause it’s too expensive otherwise? Just don’t expect the same for our boats, even if it is your house.

I had a business in a town called Murwillumbah. The town was built below the flood level, only the levies saved it, but twice in the last century it was flooded.

I couldn't get insurance for flooding, I accepted that, to me it was obvious. This is why I do not understand why boats were and are insured in hurricane zones and seasons. The rest of us now suffer due to this stupidity.