Induction stoves for boats

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Gimbals don't work in big storms and are dangerous. Strong well engineered pot holders that actually hold the pots tight do.

Our propane stove has a gimbal (probably same as the boat Auspicious delivered). We put the portable induction cooker on the stove and leave the gas turned off. The cooker does not slide around on the grate and it leaves our counter tops free. The pot holders that are designed for the stove work whether we use gas or induction. Induction cooking is great especially if we have to run the genset for other needs such as recharging the fridge cold plate and/or batteries. It also works on the Mastvolt inverter. It draws about 125A from the batteries when cooking on high.

We have never been in "a big storm" but doubt we would be doing a lot of cooking in such a storm. If we needed to heat something we would put it in a sealed plastic or rubberized bowl and heat it in the microwave which is well secured. For truly violent passages or other emergency I keep a handful of MREs on hand.

One side note about induction cookers. Be sure you get the right pots or pans. I do not recommend the "adapter plates" that are advertised to work with non-induction cookware. They are inefficient and can overheat the induction cooker.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Don't put a microwave with a rotating glass tray on a boat.
This does not work at all. The only sort of microwave to use is an inverter microwave with a flat base. You then put an oversize silicone mat on the bottom and cook in all conditions....force 12 if you like.

Too late! My boat was originally built with one.

My microwave IS an inverter type. Are they even made anymore without the rotating glass plate? I don't believe I've seen one of those in decades.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Here you go:

Induction stove-ovens / for boats / two-burner / three-burner - tom logisch - exploring the world in a better way
Attachment 149191

Matt

That's very beautiful!

I don't know whether it's gimballed or not, but in any case, you can buy a gimballed housing here:

Yacht Galley Ovens, Hobs & Microwaves | GN Espace

This has been available for some years. I don't know the cost, and I guess I would be somewhat afraid to ask

[John Holbrook]

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think this argument about cooking in rough conditions is as stupid as a competition on who can pee the furthest directly upwind in a Gale!

You prep and make single serving Ready to Eat meals when conditions are good, then defrost and microwave to warm up when off watch crew feel hungry.

Why destroy a perfectly nice galley or a willing cook, when conditions are rough?

[Auspicious]

Geez. You guys had a lot to say over my night.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

You prep and make single serving Ready to Eat meals when conditions are good, then defrost and microwave to warm up when off watch crew feel hungry.

Perhaps you do. I don't.

My routine is breakfast at 8 during change of watch. Weather briefing for the crew at the same time. Any changes to standing orders at the same time. 12-4 watchstander excused on request to sleep through in which case I catch him/her up later. Breakfast alternates between something cooked and DIY yogurt/fruit/grains.

Lunch is at 12 during change of watch and may be sandwiches, stew, salads, or leftovers (usually repurposed).

Dinner is at 6 and is the social event of the day and prep for the night watches. Dinner is a big meal. I do cook forward toward future meals (e.g. extra chicken breasts for chicken salad or pork loin for sandwiches). Logistics permitting I do make and either freeze or can some things (homemade lasagna, stews).

There is rarely time, on a delivery, to spend a day after provisioning doing more than minimal prep and advanced cooking. Cruising your own boat is definitely more flexible - no argument from me. We're usually off the dock within 36 hours of first step on the boat. Just getting the boat ready and the food stowed while figuring out systems on a boat I haven't seen before takes that time.

I object to your concept of crew eating when they want for several reasons. Most importantly the major responsibility of off-watch crew is to rest. Dinging microwaves don't help that. Crew need to be considerate of each other when people are sleeping. I also like to keep an eye on crew food intake and especially liquid intake. Skipper is responsible for H&S of all aboard. Finally cooking from scratch results in less waste that has to be retained. Since I often end up sleeping with trash bags I try to keep that down.

I do have a snack bag to hand for on-watch crew. Convenient for crew and keeps them from rummaging around in my fridge. *grin*

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Why destroy a perfectly nice galley or a willing cook, when conditions are rough?

If you cook right you don't destroy the galley. Mise en place. Work on one thing at a time. Use non-skid. Work over gimbals. Prep then cook (generally). Don't get boxed in by a meal plan - cook what conditions and crew appetites dictate. I'm still working on how to avoid bruises on my hips from safety rails. *grin*

Packing the fridge in an organized fashion helps a lot. Layers, vertical storage especially in top loaders, paying attention to temperature profiles, and protecting soft goods (like my homemade lasagna!) from being crushed are important.

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Induction stove-ovens / for boats / two-burner / three-burner - tom logisch - exploring the world in a better way
Attachment 149191

Brilliant. That's a game changer. Did you get a price? With a convection/microwave below that solves a lot of microwave problems.

Originally Posted by CarlF

Steve Dashew's FPB powerboats use induction stoves with pot holder rails but no gimbals.

It's a 65' x 17' boat. That changes the dynamics. In addition people do all kinds of things that may not be best. Grey Wolf may well have been built for someone who insisted on induction when gimballed platforms were not available. That doesn't make it the best choice, or even an acceptably good one for an offshore boat.

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

Our propane stove has a gimbal (probably same as the boat Auspicious delivered).

I mostly see Force 10 and Eno with the occasional Princess or Seaward.

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

We put the portable induction cooker on the stove and leave the gas turned off.

You may find a couple of ceramic heat dissipaters (a good-sized cast iron one) in the bottom of the oven will balance the increased high weight and height.

I use a cutting board on top of the cooker for stable prep. Can you do that on top of the portable induction cooker?

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

We have never been in "a big storm" but doubt we would be doing a lot of cooking in such a storm.

If you mean a real F10 storm I agree. I've heard F7 described as a "storm" in which case there is no reason not to cook. Some appetites will be off but people who want to eat should be fed.

I have the same reservations about fixed microwaves that I have about fixed cooktops, especially for heating liquids and near liquids (like stews). Trying to time opening the microwave door with boat motion is asking for something to launch across the boat. I've seen it. I've cleaned it up. I've dealt with burns.

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

For truly violent passages or other emergency I keep a handful of MREs on hand.

I truly hope you don't ever have to eat them. *grin*

Back on the specific topic of 'Induction stoves for boats' Matt's link to a gimballed cooker really does change a lot. In no way does it change my objections based on substantial real world experience to fixed cooktops. It does say there is a way to install induction on an offshore boat in a seamanlike way and still feed people decently. Gimbals are important. Now there is at least one solution that provides both gimbals and induction.

People make all kinds of choices. We can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. I've delivered boats so dependent on 117 VAC (or 230 VAC) that we ran the generator ten or twelve hours per day or the inverter the rest of the time. I ran a sportfish that ran a generator (there were three) from shorepower to shorepower. I get that people make different choices.

When I look at energy requirements propane is such an easy answer. That's my opinion - not a fact. It's a conclusion (opinion) based on observation of facts. I don't see how to justify bigger battery banks, bigger inverters, more generator hours, more cooking limitations (good food is important to me), all for a more expensive less flexible cooking method. That's before considering additional failure modes (Google FMEA). Other people look at the same data (at least those who can separate their own opinion from facts) and come to a different conclusion. That's fine. It's even respectable.

Open minded people can learn and consider options by having their conclusions and pre-conceptions challenged constructively in civil discourse. We all just have to weed out the religious fervor. *grin*

In my experience, for the way that I cook, induction is almost as good as gas. Matt's find of a gimballed induction cooker addresses my biggest concern of cooking over induction on boats. The individual decision of a 12 VDC boat vice a 117/230 VAC boat is most of the rest.

[transmitterdan]

The induction cooktop is only about 2.5" high so does not add appreciably to the balance of the gimbal. We already have a chunk of iron in the bottom of the oven for when we are just using the top. It's stabilizing effect is pretty complete.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I have the same reservations about fixed microwaves that I have about fixed cooktops, especially for heating liquids and near liquids (like stews). Trying to time opening the microwave door with boat motion is asking for something to launch across the boat. I've seen it. I've cleaned it up. I've dealt with burns.

Yeah, been there and done that. Even on a 54' x 16' boat.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Back on the specific topic of 'Induction stoves for boats' Matt's link to a gimballed cooker really does change a lot. In no way does it change my objections based on substantial real world experience to fixed cooktops. It does say there is a way to install induction on an offshore boat in a seamanlike way and still feed people decently. Gimbals are important. Now there is at least one solution that provides both gimbals and induction.

People make all kinds of choices. We can look at the same facts and come to different conclusions. I've delivered boats so dependent on 117 VAC (or 230 VAC) that we ran the generator ten or twelve hours per day or the inverter the rest of the time. I ran a sportfish that ran a generator (there were three) from shorepower to shorepower. I get that people make different choices.

When I look at energy requirements propane is such an easy answer. That's my opinion - not a fact. It's a conclusion (opinion) based on observation of facts. I don't see how to justify bigger battery banks, bigger inverters, more generator hours, more cooking limitations (good food is important to me), all for a more expensive less flexible cooking method. That's before considering additional failure modes (Google FMEA). Other people look at the same data (at least those who can separate their own opinion from facts) and come to a different conclusion. That's fine. It's even respectable.

Open minded people can learn and consider options by having their conclusions and pre-conceptions challenged constructively in civil discourse. We all just have to weed out the religious fervor. *grin*

In my experience, for the way that I cook, induction is almost as good as gas. Matt's find of a gimballed induction cooker addresses my biggest concern of cooking over induction on boats. The individual decision of a 12 VDC boat vice a 117/230 VAC boat is most of the rest.

Leaving aside the always lurking issue of safety (small risk of catastrophic events, and biggish nuisance mitigating that risk), propane is an ok energy source, yet another fuel that has to be sourced, carried, etc., but good direct production of heat, if you have any problems generating or delivering that much heat via electricity.

So naturally how attractive electric cooking is, will depend a lot on what kind of electrical system you have and what kind of patterns of consumption. I don't think electric cooking could be very interesting for anyone who would have to add generating or battery capacity for it. But many yachts have electrical system which could handle it without any problem.

It's a systems architecture question, actually -- the more different things you do with electrical power, the more interesting it is, because the cost of the basic infrastructure gets distributed over more different functions. I use electrical power for a lot of things on my boat and have quite a bit of both storage and generating capacity. Electric cooking would not be a big strain on our systems, and would not even increase generator run times that much. Off shore power, I'm usually doing a generator run during dinner cooking time anyway -- even without electric cooking, it's the peak power consumption period of the day. YMMV.

[Auspicious]

We are certainly backing up to a big picture view of the system implications of induction.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

yet another fuel that has to be sourced, carried, etc.

I'm with you. My first choice would be to get gasoline off the boat but diesel outboards are hard to come by. *grin*

I have looked at diesel and/or kerosene for cooking. Not too impressed with those fuels for cooking in warm climes. I can see the appeal of moving from three fuels to two.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Off shore power, I'm usually doing a generator run during dinner cooking time anyway -- even without electric cooking, it's the peak power consumption period of the day. YMMV.

All depends on the boat. Other things being equal I generally run the generator in the morning. Night time is the biggest consumer of power while underway on a 12 VDC boat. Nav lights, backlights on electronics, charging personal electronics, no solar, etc. If the boat has lots of solar and lots of LED then it might wait until afternoon but even then using the generator in the morning when the batteries are lowest and letting the solar top up is more fuel efficient. Consumption-driven power generation is a different balance.

Cruising I have moved generator time to the afternoon so we can run A/C. "Happy wife, happy life." Like your cooking example it is consumption driven.

It does imply that adding a large power consumer like induction cooking has system implications.

[montigre]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Nothing works in big storms. That's not the challenge.

But do "well engineered pot holders" work on a 20 degree heel? I can't quite imagine. Good gimbals do.

I doubt, if relying on just the pot holders, would work very well, but with an induction cook top, you can tie the pot to the holder with simple twine without worry of fire because the pot never will get hot enough to burn. In this case, gimballing the cooking area may not be necessary.

I've used induction for 10 years in my home and would like to also use it on my boat.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by montigre

I doubt, if relying on just the pot holders, would work very well, but with an induction cook top, you can tie the pot to the holder with simple twine without worry of fire because the pot never will get hot enough to burn. In this case, gimballing the cooking area may not be necessary.

I've tied pots in place on fixed cooktops. I'm sure I'll do it again because people keep putting fixed cooktops on boats and then asking me to delivery them. Sometimes because they made choices in outfit that make going offshore hard. It's miserable. It leads to choices like provisioning passages in the frozen food aisle and microwaving everything.

It isn't about induction or gas - it's about fixed or gimbals.

[msponer]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That is extremely interesting!! "FWIW" is a lot in this case -- you're speaking from experience, not speculation like the rest of us!

Could you post some photos of your setup, particularly photos of it being used, if possible?

We have a counter top induction burner. It's in the center of the photo, under the guy's arm. This is on the passage from Galapagos to the Marquessas. You can see the wood rails the sides, that hold the pot and burner in place, and a big frying pan on top. That pan has sloped sides, so it has seemed like it would jump over the rails when it is rough. The wood rails could be taller to prevent this, but then the food might slosh out of the pan. So we use larger pots, with straight sides, to fix both problems. When it is rough we generally use our largest pot, a pressure cooker, which fills the whole space between the rails, so it doesn't move much. The inductor doesn't get hot, so for smaller pots we've either go with a silicone mat or put a couple wooden spoons on either side of it, to wedge it in place. The stainless pot holder tong things would be an upgrade, but sometimes they've felt fiddly.

As the second photo shows, we most often use the gimballed stove to hold the cutting board level.

We generally don't think about the power usage of the inductor. I think we would if our cooking style was different, and needed the higher power levels often. As it is, we almost never deep fry things or do whatever else would call for sustained high heat. We mostly simmer and stir fry. It draws an ungodly amount at anything above maybe 70% power, and so we turn on the genset or engine to be kind to the batteries if we need to do that.

Our propane stove is still using the same small Camping Gaz cylinder that we picked up in Tahiti, I think it holds like ~4 pounds of propane. We do enjoy not worrying about propane, because we generally don't use it.

We also have an electric teakettle for coffee and tea, because it's wonderfully convenient.

[Pelagic]

Hi Auspicious,

My comments were specific to heavy weather conditions
When good we all enjoy a nice breakfast and social dinner, if the Cook is up to it.
But when nasty, my philosophy is to be already prepared with self serve prepared meals..

I don't think we are that different except that I don't cook and do not expect someone to cook for me if they are seasick and being bruised in the galley.

Comments below.

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Perhaps you do. I don't.

My routine is breakfast at 8 during change of watch. Weather briefing for the crew at the same time. Any changes to standing orders at the same time. 12-4 watchstander excused on request to sleep through in which case I catch him/her up later. Breakfast alternates between something cooked and DIY yogurt/fruit/grains.

Lunch is at 12 during change of watch and may be sandwiches, stew, salads, or leftovers (usually repurposed).

Dinner is at 6 and is the social event of the day and prep for the night watches. Dinner is a big meal. I do cook forward toward future meals (e.g. extra chicken breasts for chicken salad or pork loin for sandwiches). Logistics permitting I do make and either freeze or can some things (homemade lasagna, stews).

Pretty much do the same when conditions are good

There is rarely time, on a delivery, to spend a day after provisioning doing more than minimal prep and advanced cooking. Cruising your own boat is definitely more flexible - no argument from me. We're usually off the dock within 36 hours of first step on the boat. Just getting the boat ready and the food stowed while figuring out systems on a boat I haven't seen before takes that time.

This is where we differ on management.
I insist on a longer pre voyage period to prep all departments, do boat specific emergency drills and have the cook make and freeze the heavy weather meals before departure.

I object to your concept of crew eating when they want for several reasons. Most importantly the major responsibility of off-watch crew is to rest.

Seasick crew WILL eat when they want (or can)

Dinging microwaves don't help that. ...nor does someone banging around in the galley trying to cook for an unknown number who still have an appetite.





Crew need to be considerate of each other when people are sleeping. I also like to keep an eye on crew food intake and especially liquid intake. Skipper is responsible for H&S of all aboard.

Obviously, monitoring fluid intake and trying to keep down crackers is a skippers responsibility to seasick crew but more importantly monitoring their alertness level so that are not a danger to themselves or others


Finally cooking from scratch results in less waste that has to be retained. Since I often end up sleeping with trash bags I try to keep that down.

This I believe is backwards! preparing a number of cooked and then frozen meals gets rid of the majority of waste materials BEFORE you leave the dock

I do have a snack bag to hand for on-watch crew. Convenient for crew and keeps them from rummaging around in my fridge. *grin*

You made a great point about a commercial delivery vs a private voyage...

In the past, my deliveries were on smaller yachts 50 to 120ft and many in the wrong season, so crew were varied but not offshore sailors. This is when I learned to minimize the cooking element if rough.

Now it is Super yacht deliveries with 16+ crew....many in catering and hotel who shine with the Owners onboard but fail in a passage when the swell kicks up.
I don't fight it, I just get them to prepare before we leave delicious portioned meals and freeze them.




If you cook right you don't destroy the galley. Mise en place. Work on one thing at a time. Use non-skid. Work over gimbals. Prep then cook (generally). Don't get boxed in by a meal plan - cook what conditions and crew appetites dictate. I'm still working on how to avoid bruises on my hips from safety rails. *grin*

Packing the fridge in an organized fashion helps a lot. Layers, vertical storage especially in top loaders, paying attention to temperature profiles, and protecting soft goods (like my homemade lasagna!) from being crushed are important.

Sounds like you are a great cook and enjoy it....makes for a happy crew.... (Unless they are seasick [emoji33]

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Comments below.

I didn't see your comments... You wrote your response in a way that one cannot distinguish between the original and your contribution.

Hint: You can "split quotes"

You do this by adding quote tags:

This closes a quote.

[/quote]

And this opens a new one:

[quote]

[noelex 77]

I have seen a a few cruising yachts with a gimballed worktop attached to the stove, as in the picture below. I thought it was a good idea, although sadly it did not fit into the layout for our new yacht.

A induction oven would not serve as a replacement for a propane stove on our non generator equipped boat, but a single induction hotplate may be usable occasionally to reduce propane use. So we plan to purchase a portable unit. Any recommendations? Is it practical to use this attached to the top of the gimballed oven (obviously when propane is not in use) or is the extra height/weight a problem?

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I have seen a a few cruising yachts with a gimballed worktop attached to the stove, as in the picture below. I thought it was a good idea, although sadly it did not fit into the layout for our new yacht.

A induction oven would not serve as a replacement for a propane stove on our non generator equipped boat, but a single induction hotplate may be usable occasionally to reduce propane use. So we plan to purchase a portable unit. Any recommendations? Is it practical to use this attached to the top of the gimballed oven (obviously when propane is not in use) or is the extra height/weight a problem?

Yes, its a problem, don't do it. It's a half solution.
You end up with dangerous added height with no method of containing the pots.

This is only safe in calm conditions at which time you don't need gimbals.

On your new boat you should not need a generator to run induction.

If you have solar and it does not work then you did something wrong with your planned setup.

On a modern boat you have to contain the pots if you don't want gimbals.