hunter yachts :'(

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by colemj

I'm not sure if this is directed at me or not, but I didn't profess any expertise on the brand. I stated that examples of the questions posed by capn_bill could be found easily on the internet.

I stand by my statement that "modern design" and "thin hulls" are not necessarily the same thing.

Mark

I apologize for bringing you into this, it isn't your argument.

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by CnC40sailor

I have a bias towards the brand despite it being American. The new ones look like junk (to sail) and seem to be designed as a marina queen/daysailor. Most yacht reviews don't critique any thing and so make it impossible to really know the boat (although I have sailed on one).
So what do you guys think of em, as A SAILBOAT?

I would like to point out that I never said hunters were terrible boats. I said, in a more negative way, that the boats looked slow. I asked only for opinions but got people assuming I thought the boats were awful, but unfortunately I went along with it. I must say though, those assumptions must be what people really feel about their boat, it is a loitered feeling they have suppressed only for prides sake.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by CnC40sailor

I find it surprising that someone in a completely different market of boats knows more about a particular brand than those who "thoroughly" researched the boat they were eventually going to buy...

And yet I thoughly researched my boat and you seem to feel you know more about it that I do! And beyound 'research' I have miles and miles of real use, along with maintenance that tells me all about it's contruction and quality, and you still know more about it that I do.

I used to be part of the anti-Hunter group. But I took a harder look and got past "internet Hunter experts" and now have a nice boat! If I never had been a member of CF I probably would have had a Hunter sooner and saved around $20,000 on the boat I initially got instead!

Most of the "facts" about Hunter problems are retold internet stories that are now like 20th party. While there may be some truth somewhere in "the story" it is way different that what gets talked now. And of course it applies to that 1 Hunter, not Hunter overall.

PS - I've sailed a C&C-36 for 7 days. Regardless of my mostly dislikes for it I don't use it to trash C&C boats as a whole.

[Juniper]

Hunters are a line of production boats, some have differing price points and throughout the years their managment has changed mindsets a few times. The lower price point hunters may have less fit and finish then some of the higher ones, at differing times quality may have been different, It's like saying an '85 Ford Escort is a junk of a car so all fords are junk.

[capn_billl]

If you want i post here a bunch of pictures showing laminate failures in some new production boats , we have the boatyard full of fiberglass projects.
A brand new Orana with a masive Crack in the underbody, a beneteau 50 with a 24 inch crack close to the port side waterline,
and a Irwin with internal grids loose from the hull or a Catana with cracks at dagerboards or the Kirie feeling with masive cracks around keel inside and outside after a grounding .
I cant blame the laminate thicknes or the quality of materials , but close inspection at a truhull hole in the Beny in the keel laminate area showing just 1cm of FB thicknes , and in the chainplate area is the same , the builder have a strong faith in the grid system, i understand now the oil caning effect at the chainplate hull side ,
same history in a charter based Catana after a grounding , can you imagine a Catana grounded with dagerboards upp?? well it happen here in St Marteen and the guy who grind the damage area show me just 5 mm of laminate between foam blocks , this boats are fast but with a price.


These are the kind of facts I'm looking for thanks.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Since when was a question a "Fact"?

That was my point. Without hard data there is no facts.

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

And yet I thoughly researched my boat and you seem to feel you know more about it that I do! And beyound 'research' I have miles and miles of real use, along with maintenance that tells me all about it's contruction and quality, and you still know more about it that I do.

I used to be part of the anti-Hunter group. But I took a harder look and got past "internet Hunter experts" and now have a nice boat! If I never had been a member of CF I probably would have had a Hunter sooner and saved around $20,000 on the boat I initially got instead!

Most of the "facts" about Hunter problems are retold internet stories that are now like 20th party. While there may be some truth somewhere in "the story" it is way different that what gets talked now. And of course it applies to that 1 Hunter, not Hunter overall.

PS - I've sailed a C&C-36 for 7 days. Regardless of my mostly dislikes for it I don't use it to trash C&C boats as a whole.

You should really go back to the beginning of the thread, my first two posts only compared hunter to other boats, in addition to me adding a statement saying the boat looked slow. I never said anything negative about the construction of the hunter, just admitted that tartan used better building techniques/equipment. It was YOU the hunter people who started the doubts on your construction. Then in some naive manner a few others said hunter was as strong as tartan x yachts shannon etc. That was too far, so I followed on the doubts of hunters strength. You pay for what you get.

P.S. I dare you to try and damage the reputation of pre 85 C&Cs. You may find this to be an arduous endeavor, especially compared to that of a hunter.

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

That was my point. Without hard data there is no facts.

Here is why hunters with there asymmetric transoms are not seakindly in real weather (a boat with a similar design).

Back to the wide transom, here is a quote from sailing magizine reviewing the C&C 121:
" The hull shape features an extremely wide transom. It's too wide for my eye, but this beam aft benefits the cockpit layout and the aft cabin accommodations. Is this shape bad? or slow?No, I don't think so. Sometimes when you get a boat with too much beam aft the waterlines go quite asymmetrical when the boat heels over giving it a multiple personality, i.e. it's balanced and well-behaved when sailed upright, but a real unbalanced bear when it's heeled"[/QUOTE]

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by CnC40sailor

P.S. I dare you to try and damage the reputation of pre 85 C&Cs. You may find this to be an arduous endeavor, especially compared to that of a hunter.

As to your innocence with regards to the charge of trolling, I'd say this statement speaks volumes.

As to the statement, I've sailed an 82 C&C 40 and found it fun to sail because it's light and quick but has a pronounced tendency to round up when over powered, though probably more because of its weight then its transom, would be my guess. I like the boat and have to desire to trash its reputation, merely an observation.

Trashing boats while arguing that you're not is a pretty transparent web ploy.

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by hummingway

As to your innocence with regards to the charge of trolling, I'd say this statement speaks volumes.

As to the statement, I've sailed an 82 C&C 40 and found it fun to sail because it's light and quick but has a pronounced tendency to round up when over powered, though probably more because of its weight then its transom, would be my guess. I like the boat and have to desire to trash its reputation, merely an observation.

Trashing boats while arguing that you're not is a pretty transparent uweb ploy.

Quite frankly, I agree with that entire post. My last statement invites argument, which contradicts quite a few of my earlier posts. In essence, that statement is hypocrisy at its finest.

Regarding the boat being overpowered; I'm going to assume that when she was overpowered, the toe-rail was in the water. The boat is awful when the toe rail does reach the water, but steadily gets faster till that point. So in addition to the boat turning up, she also heels at to much of an angle, there is absolutely no benefit to overpowering that boat.

[chef2sail]

I have followed this thread with some ammusement and incredulity. CnC40, I think you are not quite understanding the speed thing here also. remember I also own an older C&C like you a 35MKIII and it will sail the crap out of yours on corrected time. Go up to the Great Lakes..there is no 40 ft class, but there is a whole 35 foot C&C class racing like the J Boats here on the Chessie. Yes I go past a lot of the larger production boats in 10 knots of wind or greater, but that does not make them inferior. Maybe they are just out for a nice leasurely sail, maybe they have company, maybe the first mate doesnt like the rail down and the sheets tugged in to the max. We take our little racer/ cruiser to New England ever year off shore 60 miles. Do we hunker the sails down racing style...no way we would be worn out. No need to

A lot of owners like usually do a fair amount of research and match the style of sailing they do to the type of boat they purchase. There are many tradeoff which are made including concessiones for living space, storage space, tankage, engine, cored vs non cored, speed, comfort in a seaway. sail area, displacement, etc. Denigrating a boat brand and the people who buy that boat is not what I am about. There is no doubt the large Hunters such as Don Lucass boat are veertainly seaworthy and stout enough to cruise offshore on ( Look at the Sequitar posts on Sailnet to follow their adventures). While I might look for a different boat than a Hunter I would not thing to ridicule the boat he has bought becasue it obviously makes him happy and he is out there sailing the hell out of it. You buy what suits you at the price p;oint which you can afford and get out there sailing. Not every sail is a race.

Some of my friends own Tartans. some Sabres, Some Hunters, some Sundeers, Hans Christians, Catalinas, Benetaues..all types. They know what they have bought, and they know how much they are worth and know what their resale value is. One of the best resale value boats is a Catalina. Thats a production boat.

As far as C&Cs go I would NEVER buy a new one. They are not made the same as they were 28 years ago. I dont like the new process which they are made. I dont like the lightening of the boat. We are looking for our last boat to cruise on when we retire. Having been on and sailed over 100 boats in my lifetime we have narrowed it down to two or three. 43 Mason, 41.1 Bristol, or 43 Hans Chrisian Christina. They fit our personality and qualifications. Speed is not as imprtant to me ( although they are not pigs) as is a protected skeg rudder, comfort in the seaway, variable sail plans to adjust to differing wind conditions with a second forestay, tankage, structural build, berths while in the seaway making passage, weight distribution, build quality, quiality equipment. This was in no particular order.

Do I want a wide transom...no, but if that was important I would look it would be a priority for me. It sure is a nice feature to have the sterns which recover dingys easier than my transverse one does, but you trade off some performance. Do I look at the plumb bows of the newer boats with admiration, no I like the sheer lines of the older ones, but that doesnt make the plumb bows inferior either. Do I want a B&R rig, no I like a backstay and like a masthead rig as most of the trade winds sailing will not be beats and I want performance down wind and dont want to worry about my main hitting the spreaders either. I want a variety of sail configuartions so a conversion to a cutter rig may be in my future.

I am a traditionalist like you are in many ways, but other see their boats as the way the want them. Far be if for me to make fun of them for their choices or to think so little oif their intelligence that they made uninformed decisions. They choose what suits them and most are happy with it. Most importantly they sail them and enjoy the cammradiere of the sailing lifestyle.

Dave

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Other than that all this thread is just a troll to trash a boat line!

For the final time, I did not originally trash anything about hunter other than their apparent speed. It was others who were first to post the ridicule.
Don Lucas made it personal, and as a result, I chastised the brand and returned the favor.

[CnC40sailor]

Originally Posted by chef2sail

remember I also own an older C&C like you a 35MKIII and it will sail the crap out of yours on corrected time.

Dave

A grand soleil 43 with a PHRF of about 70, won group 1 of the fastnet race. It's not about a boats rating, its how well it sails to that rating that really determines its speed.
How often do you hit 9kts?
(There is a reason for this retaliation)

[hummingway]

Any purpose this thread may have served has been achieved. Thread closed.