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07-02-2020, 13:09
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sea of Cortez/northern Utah/ Wisconsin/ La Paz, BCS
Boat: Hans Christian 38 Mk II
Posts: 948
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Re: hookah compressor
Oil-less compressors don’t have oil seals that might fail, as they have no oil. At most, the bearings would have grease lubrication. Grease usually doesn’t volatilize and off-gas.
Adding filters/coalescers might make you more comfortable, but poor maintenance of the filters might make the cure worse than the disease. Mold and bacteria like living on many filter media.
One thing about OSHA regs - they are written for workers who would be expected to use supplied air 8hrs/day, 5 days/week, 50 weeks/year.
Unless you professionally clean boat bottoms, few cruisers accumulate 2000hrs of Hookah diving per year.
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07-02-2020, 13:58
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 328
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Re: hookah compressor
Very important to have a non return valve either in the reg or where reg hose joins main hose. If hose detaches above water, your tongue and half your lungs will end up in the compressor tank!
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07-02-2020, 16:02
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 4,653
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlydon
Very helpful, Simi.....
It was really an leading question prompting folks to discuss what they've done real-world to ensure the air is indeed okay to breathe, as opposed to prompting for wise-ass, none-informative responses.
My first 2 searches for compressor air quality came up with discussions on coalescing filters, and an osha statement that goes:
Oxygen (O2) Level Control
Air compressors, including non-lubricated models, utilize some type of lubricating fluid. Many compressors contain either mineral or synthetic lubricants (e.g. oil). Even with particle, oil and odor filters, it is still possible for oil (e.g. aerosol mist or vapor) or fine particulates (e.g. dust, dirt, powders, wear particles, pollen, spores) to contaminate SCBA air if a mechanical malfunction occurs or there has been poor maintenance. The proper sampling of compressed air for oil mist/vapor and particulates is difficult because these contaminants are not evenly distributed in the air stream and can condense on tank walls or within regulators. Re-introduction of oil mist/vapor and particulates into the air stream can occur under the right conditions.
Personally, I wouldn't like a lung-full of oil vapor if the compressor blew a seal - what are folks using for filters/purifiers?
Matt
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More searches, even reading the first couple of posts would have told you we use oil free compressors.
Professional divers also use oil free compressors.
That's why you got the comment I gave you.
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07-02-2020, 16:25
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,416
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K
Very important to have a non return valve either in the reg or where reg hose joins main hose. If hose detaches above water, your tongue and half your lungs will end up in the compressor tank!
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Hi, most, if not all diving regulators are of the downstream valve design where the diaphragm pulls the valve off the seat so should there be a sudden loss of air the valve is sucked closed, nothing beyond it. No need to install another non return.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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07-02-2020, 17:13
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York
Boat: Columbia 50
Posts: 696
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Re: hookah compressor
Hey Simi - Sorry I snapped at you. Yes i know they are ‘oil-less’ as in they don’t have a sump. I was thinking more of the grease in the bearings, etc. I also just checked out the manual from a gast compressor - they mention Teflon-filled rings, which sounds yummy as well. Now that I’m looking, Ive turned up this advice on a scuba board, which is exactly why I posted my original question:
“traditional oil-less compressors are pre-lubed with teflon. The gas inside of these compressors gets VERY hot which is why they have a limited duty cycle before overheating. Teflon as a lubricant means it will wear off over time and the combo of it wearing off and the heat makes it carcinogenic which is why teflon pans have started to fall out of favor.
The duty cycle of these compressors is typically 30 on, 30 off and on a hookah that can be a problem.
The diaphragm compressors run a lot cooler and don't use the same type of pre-lube. There is a reason that hookahs and O2 concentrators use those diaphragm style compressors, I would recommend following suit.”
I’d add that tefgel has a strong warning about not smoking while working with it, as if you get it on your cigarette the temp is high enough to vaporize the Teflon, doing Bad Things to your lungs.....
So, I’ll be on the lookout for a diaphragm type.
If you’re interested, the thread I got that from was
https://www.scubaboard.com/community....563210/page-3
Thanks to all
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07-02-2020, 17:52
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 168
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Re: hookah compressor
You all have given me plenty to think about. Appreciate it.
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07-02-2020, 18:07
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 241
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Re: hookah compressor
Some observations:
A person doing light work near the surface would be expected to consume about 20 litres a minute of gas so a ~70 lpm compressor has lots of head room and will be not running ~2/3rds of the time.
The byproducts of burning teflon are indeed dangerous. However this occurs at VERY high temperatures (~350°C) so I'd suggest if your hookah and or boat are at that temperature range, you would have much more pressing concerns.
Most compressors do have bleed screws in their receiver tanks to bleed off any normal condensate or 'goop' that does drop out during the compression process.
Everyone should assess the risks for them selves but I'd find the mere act of submerging myself underwater, below a vessel that I chould possibly become entangled with as a greater threat than being poisoned by a well chosen compressor.
Cheers
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07-02-2020, 18:21
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SoCal
Boat: Formosa 30 ketch
Posts: 1,004
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Oxygen (O2) Level Control
Air compressors, including non-lubricated models, utilize some type of lubricating fluid.
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Dictionary
Search for a word
non-
/nän/
Learn to pronounce
prefix
1.
expressing negation or absence.
"nonaggression"
And these are the people (like the EPA) who regulate our lives.
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07-02-2020, 18:56
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 328
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Hi, most, if not all diving regulators are of the downstream valve design where the diaphragm pulls the valve off the seat so should there be a sudden loss of air the valve is sucked closed, nothing beyond it. No need to install another non return.
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Please read my post!
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07-02-2020, 20:22
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,416
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K
Please read my post!
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Would that be the post where you stated that if the hose detaches without a non return valve either in the reg or where the reg hose joins the main hose your tongue and half your lungs end up in the compressor tank??
Anybody familiar with diving regulators would understand that this cannot happen, even if the reg was an old tilt valve model.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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07-02-2020, 22:41
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 328
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Would that be the post where you stated that if the hose detaches without a non return valve either in the reg or where the reg hose joins the main hose your tongue and half your lungs end up in the compressor tank??
Anybody familiar with diving regulators would understand that this cannot happen, even if the reg was an old tilt valve model.
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"in the reg" Look up SeaBee regs, they used to be the most common regs used in hookahs; later versions only had non return, I've been building and using a hookah since the late 60's.
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07-02-2020, 23:02
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,416
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K
"in the reg" Look up SeaBee regs, they used to be the most common regs used in hookahs; later versions only had non return, I've been building and using a hookah since the late 60's.
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You have been at it longer than me, I only go back to the early 70's but I used to repair them as well. Sea Bee's,were always considered a lesser product, at least in the circles that I frequented,made in Balgowlah if memory serves me correctly, we prefered USD, Scubapro etc second stages. By far the best that I had was a Scubapro with an adjustment knob on the right hand side that enabled adjustment of the spring. Really liked that reg, put many hours in the water with it.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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08-02-2020, 00:06
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 328
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
You have been at it longer than me, I only go back to the early 70's but I used to repair them as well. Sea Bee's,were always considered a lesser product, at least in the circles that I frequented,made in Balgowlah if memory serves me correctly, we prefered USD, Scubapro etc second stages. By far the best that I had was a Scubapro with an adjustment knob on the right hand side that enabled adjustment of the spring. Really liked that reg, put many hours in the water with it.
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SeaBee's were better for hookah use, because the "upstream"valve worked at much lower pressure, in fact you could suck air through at atmospheric, we always put a non return valve on the connection to the main line. Later SeaBee's had a downstream thingo, to stop reverse flow, but was never trusted by us. When I finally moved to SCUBA I used a USD "Pro Diver", I remember the first stage weighed about 2kg! It was too hard to get tanks filled in the 60's and early 70's so the hookah was the apparatus of choice. In fact I still use my USD second stage, same as the "Conshelf"; parts are still available. The first hookah I built used the B&S motor stolen from my mothers rotary hoe! Used sanitary pads and some activated charcoal for a filter; castor oil in the compressor was safer than mineral oil apparently.
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08-02-2020, 01:12
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,416
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce K
SeaBee's were better for hookah use, because the "upstream"valve worked at much lower pressure, in fact you could suck air through at atmospheric, we always put a non return valve on the connection to the main line. Later SeaBee's had a downstream thingo, to stop reverse flow, but was never trusted by us. When I finally moved to SCUBA I used a USD "Pro Diver", I remember the first stage weighed about 2kg! It was too hard to get tanks filled in the 60's and early 70's so the hookah was the apparatus of choice. In fact I still use my USD second stage, same as the "Conshelf"; parts are still available. The first hookah I built used the B&S motor stolen from my mothers rotary hoe! Used sanitary pads and some activated charcoal for a filter; castor oil in the compressor was safer than mineral oil apparently.
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Apparently we used the same plans was the compressor a clisby by any chance?
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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08-02-2020, 13:35
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pittwater NSW Aust.
Boat: Jarkan King 40 12m
Posts: 328
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Re: hookah compressor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
Apparently we used the same plans was the compressor a clisby by any chance?
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I think it was a Clisby, very compact in line twin cylinder, painted red. We made the frame from some 2" gal pipe, a bit of ply on top to mount the mechanicals, from compressor to about 3' of 1/2" copper pipe, supposedly to cool the air, put coil of pipe in water or a bucket, then to oil/water filter, into tank/frame, then to pad/charcoal filter. ran 3 divers to about 40'. if we cranked the relief valve up could get 1 diver to over 100'. I still have the supply hose somewhere. Remember SCUBA using a "Horse Collar" BCD? Some of the older guys I dived with used twin hose regs.
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