Bottom Paint: Pettit Trinidad 75 vs. PPG ABC3

[Bycrick]

"Amongst the worst anti fouling paints I have ever encountered." I seem to have missed the part about SF.

As I said, my one, accidental and totally unplanned, use of an SW bottom paint performed as one would expect a very soft paint to perform in the waters between El Salvador and Panama. I had to repaint because it was mostly gone in about a a year, even though the few places that paint still existed were free of growth. That doesn’t qualify as a "worst performer" to me. Just my humble opinion and one data point isn’t statically valid.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

"Amongst the worst anti fouling paints I have ever encountered." I seem to have missed the part about SF.

Doesn't make my statement any less true. But I'll be sure to include a disclaimer in any future posts I make so that you'll understand to what I'm referring.

Originally Posted by Bycrick

I had to repaint because it was mostly gone in about a a year, even though the few places that paint still existed were free of growth. That doesn’t qualify as a "worst performer" to me. Just my humble opinion and one data point isn’t statically valid.

My experience involves multiple boats using multiple Sherwin Williams paints products over the course of years. Sometimes repeated application of the same product on the same boat. The stuff sucks, IMHO and I try to steer my clients away from it. But shockingly, some boater owners prefer to save a buck rather than buy an effective, high-quality product.

[Bycrick]

I have a friend with a modest catamaran. With 18 ‘ tides, he can drive up on the beach, clean the boat, and put on $100 worth of bottom paint every 6 months without breaking a sweat. And he isn’t a bit "shocked" except by the fact that he isn’t paying $300/gallon for Trinidad.

When I paint mine, it’s $1000 in and out plus $200/day. It’s worth it to buy a longer lasting paint.

You can and should recommend what you think works best. But when you make a blanket statement that all the paints made by a major supplier are the "worst," I think you should better define your apples and oranges.

[sailorboy1]

so, what is in Trinidad that isn't in other bottom paint?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

You can and should recommend what you think works best. But when you make a blanket statement that all the paints made by a major supplier are the "worst," I think you should better define your apples and oranges.

I didn’t make a blanket statement, I made a very specific one. I said they were amongst the worst paints that I have ever come across. I’m not sure what about that isn’t clear to you.

[Bycrick]

The SW web site lists about two dozen different antifouling paints including ablative, vinyl, epoxy, etc. But "they’re among the worst in the world," according to you, without any attempt at qualification. That sounds like a broad, general,statement to me. And lacking any supporting evidence, too.

As to the question about what’s in one paint and not the other, I’m not sure you could ever really find out the formulas. They probably won’t tell you much beyond the MSDS. I ended up with Trinidad because somebody said it worked well on their boat. I used it and it seemed to work well then and since. At the cost of a haulout and bottom job, it works well enough that, to me, it isn’t worth the risk that something else might be "better." The boat needs to be hauled periodically for reasons other than bottom paint. If the paint lasts that long, it’s long enough.

"I have my priorities, and if you don’t like them, I have others."

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

That sounds like a broad, general,statement to me. And lacking any supporting evidence, too.

I never claimed any empirical evidence supporting my statement. It is my opinion, nothing more, and I think you understand that. But it is the opinion of a marine industry professional with 26 years in the business and 35,000 hull cleanings under his belt. But I guess I could be wrong.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

so, what is in Trinidad that isn't in other bottom paint?

It's not simply "what's in Trinidad" that makes it a superior product. It involves the delivery system by which the biocide is released into the environment and the paint's durability. Anti fouling paints are a complex matrix of biocides, anti slime agents, solvents, binders, coloring agents etc. Producing one that works well across a wide range of fouling conditions is serious science and not everybody has figured it out.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

Trinidad is great but PPG and Sherwin Williams make industrial bottom paints (used by ships and the navy) that are just as good and a LOT less money. They aren't currently marketed to the yacht community but they are every bit as good; available in ablative, hard, and hybrid....

ABC3 is sold in Mexico as a Comex paint and as far as we've found, it's the only antifouling paint sold by the Mexican paint stores. The price is about $170/gallon, compared to the imported paints such as Trinidad and Micron which run well over $300/gal at the marine stores here in Mexico, so there is the incentive to use ABC3.

That being said, we repainted annually for 34 years (until this year) and in many places around the world. In some of those places (most in fact) the choice of antifouling paint was limited, often to one brand and type. So we used whatever was available. Perhaps it was because we've done it annually but it didn't seem to matter what paint we used. The performance was basically identical for any and all paints. One exception was the Jotun we used in Cartagena, Columbia, which didn't resist barnacles for even two weeks, however, after cleaning and leaving the area it worked fine for the remainder of the year. That place is bioactive, for sure.

Now in Mexico we've been using ABC3 from Comex, (owned by PPG) and we're happy with it. Happy enough that last season we did not repaint. Now nearing the end of the second year we need new paint, and we will use Comex ABC3.

[DDabs]

Why repaint annually?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Why repaint annually?

When we first got this boat, and for eight years, we raced it seriously, 45-50 times a year. All the top boats hauled annually or more frequently! We wanted to win and new bottom paint really helped so that's how we started on that program. I still believe that even now, 34 years later, we can tell the difference between a recently cleaned bottom and new paint.

Then there was a circumnavigation and everything that involves. Often there was another reason for hauling, but when out, repainting was a no-brainer.

We still race, we often win, and a new bottom each year seems to help.

This year it was an economic decision to skip it.

[Bycrick]

Fstbttms finally admitted that he has no data, no testing, no science, just his opinion that an entire line of different paints from a major manufacturer is the "worst." So, of course, we should just trust his opinion. Right. You should have said that in the first place.

[DDabs]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust a company like Shermin Williams with antifouling over companies that dedicated all of their R&D into marine applications. The point of this thread was to gain knowledge about Pettit Trinidad compared to what I know about PPG.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Honestly, I wouldn't trust a company like Shermin Williams with antifouling over companies that dedicated all of their R&D into marine applications. The point of this thread was to gain knowledge about Pettit Trinidad compared to what I know about PPG.

you should look up who owns those "dedicated" to find out what they really are/do

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

Fstbttms finally admitted that he has no data, no testing, no science, just his opinion that an entire line of different paints from a major manufacturer is the "worst." So, of course, we should just trust his opinion. Right. You should have said that in the first place.

Overreact much when somebody who knows more than you about a particular subject speaks up?