Best hard bottom paint to be cleaned as needed

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Fstbttms, given this data, how do you think this paint compares to more expensive bottom paints like Micron? Do the more expensive "yacht" paints have more biocide in them or better formulations?

Jotun paints are not sold in the U.S. and I don't know that I have ever come across one. Further, I am quite sure I don't know of any paint with which I am familiar that uses the dicopper oxide biocide. So I can't really offer an opinion.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Jotun paints are not sold in the U.S. and I don't know that I have ever come across one. Further, I am quite sure I don't know of any paint with which I am familiar that uses the dicopper oxide biocide. So I can't really offer an opinion.

Yes, probably restricted for commercial large ships in the US.
I can get it in Asia

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Yes, probably restricted for commercial large ships in the US.
I can get it in Asia

Not trying to hijack the thread, but have you tried Jotun SEAQUANTUM ULTRA S bottom paint? I have found a supplier for it here and would love to hear from someone who has tried it. Now that I can't find my regular paint (Hempel), I'm looking at Jotun.

https://www.jotun.com/Datasheets/Dow...S__Euk__GB.pdf

[TideTime]

Pettit's Trinidad is the BEST hard bottom paint; actually the best bottom paint period! I had used Trinidad for years, but finally bought on to the line that an ablative bottom paint would prevent build-up and would be easier to maintain - not true! I kind of associate an ablative bottom paint to those who swear by using a stain to protect the siding on a house and reduce painting effort - I do not believe stain does either well. Trinidad is expensive, but if I were not too lazy to remove all existing ablative paint on my hull I would definitely switch back to Trinidad.

[LifePart2]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

No. It's that any algae build-up is difficult to remove from Coppercoat. This is not the case with anti fouling paints.

I totally agree. We have had CopperCoat on our catamaran in Europe and Caribbean for 5 years now. It certainly does keep the barnacles off. But everything else grows like crazy, and the green algae on the waterline is a major pain to scrub/scrape off, which we have to do every few weeks.

I am so fed up with the cleaning that we are now about to haulout and cover it up with a traditional antifouling - but still can't quite decide what to go with. The current choice is between expensive ablative (eg Micron 350 - supposedly gives us two years), a cheap ablative (eg Interlux Nautical Pro Guard or Interlux Bottomkote NT to give us one year), or a hard bottom (Petit Trinidad - which one? - which will give us how long?)

Way back, pre-CopperCoat, we had Islands 44 which gave us almost 2 years in the Caribbean. Of course it is not available now.

[MicHughV]

two words...Pettit Trinidad !!!!!

[4kMike]

Originally Posted by boatnerd

I like Jotun seaforce 90. Not available in the US. It's a semihard selfpolishing. Feels like hard epoxy. I found it better than Trinidad SR and Ultra in the tropics. Its described as a hydrolysing acrylic paint..

Err... I don't agree. We have painted it now two times in Caribbean and not happy. It is as soft as ablatives are. and does not work at all without continuous sailing. We ended up to diving and cleaning the bottom every now and then. , and Jotun 90 went off quickly.Even fresh paint collected barnacles all the time. Looking for a real hard paint now, cleaning it anyway.

[Dave_S]

I hate antifoul, it's not fit for purpose. I understand that it is the best technology we have at the moment. So live with it.... no, I can't do it any more, I hate it so much I'm going to apply a foul release or slick coating.

CC didn't work for me. It was freshly applied to the boat when I bought it. In Manly Marina Qld Australia it was about as effective as no antifouling at all. I lifted the boat, stripped it off after 6 months and replaced it with an ablative that was recommended for use in that marina and I'd say it has worked since as per the manufacturers brochure. 3 coats = 2 years.

My uninformed opinion is that there are so many boats in the marina that used to use CC that the growth adapted to it making it no longer effective.

I pulled my boat out this week for an extended stay while I get a few things sorted out but it's going back in with a slick coating of SeaSpeed V10X. I think it is the better choice for me.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatnerd

I like Jotun seaforce 90. Not available in the US. It's a semihard selfpolishing. Feels like hard epoxy. I found it better than Trinidad SR and Ultra in the tropics. Its described as a hydrolysing acrylic paint..

That's what I use

[RickG]

We hauled the boat in Grenada in August and had the old Pettit Trinidad SR removed and the hull taken down to gel coat. Then barrier coat, primer, three coats of Trinidad 75 and a fourth coat at the water line. Why Trinidad 75? It was what we could get in black. We’ll likely use Trinidad HD/Pro when we paint the bottom again in two years; preorder this time.

After two weeks in Woburn Bay, Grenada we sailed back to our home port of Coral Bay, St. John, USVI. Coral Bay is nutrient rich and we were cleaning our bottom monthly before the new paint; it was mostly algae (red below surface and green at the water line). By now, end of November, we have barnacles starting to grow. I guess we are back to monthly cleaning. If it is just barnacles I’ll be happy as algae is more work.

Cheers, RickG

[LifePart2]

Originally Posted by RickG

After two weeks in Woburn Bay, Grenada we sailed back to our home port of Coral Bay, St. John, USVI. Coral Bay is nutrient rich and we were cleaning our bottom monthly before the new paint; it was mostly algae (red below surface and green at the water line). By now, end of November, we have barnacles starting to grow. I guess we are back to monthly cleaning. If it is just barnacles I’ll be happy as algae is more work.

Cheers, RickG

I agree, the algae is much harder to remove than just scraping off the barnacles. So the Trinidad is not so good at keeping the barnacles away? I think we are headed towards the Trinidad Pro. But I don't really want to have to keep cleaning every month. Back in the Island 44 days we had nothing grow for the first year, and very little on the second.

[RickG]

Originally Posted by LifePart2

I agree, the algae is much harder to remove than just scraping off the barnacles. So the Trinidad is not so good at keeping the barnacles away? I think we are headed towards the Trinidad Pro. But I don't really want to have to keep cleaning every month. Back in the Island 44 days we had nothing grow for the first year, and very little on the second.

The barnacle load has to do with our home port environment. If we move to a low nutrient environment they don’t grow. We choose where we live, but I do wish we could swim and make water in the anchorage.

People are still using Island 44 Plus in Grenada until the stock runs out. TBT is too hard core for us. We got to choose between hard and ablative and decided to get married to a Trinidad again.

Cheers, RickG

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by RickG

The barnacle load has to do with our home port environment. If we move to a low nutrient environment they don’t grow. We choose where we live, but I do wish we could swim and make water in the anchorage.

People are still using Island 44 Plus in Grenada until the stock runs out. TBT is too hard core for us. We got to choose between hard and ablative and decided to get married to a Trinidad again.

Cheers, RickG

We switched from Islands 44 to Micron 66 and it works just as well for the first year. Years 2-3 were okay as well, but not as good as Islands 44.

With Islands 44 we only had to start cleaning the hull at the end of year 3. With monthly cleanings we have stretched it to 6 years. With Micron 66 we stretched to 6 years as well but after 4 years there was no anti fouling action anymore.

[propmaster]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

We switched from Islands 44 to Micron 66 and it works just as well for the first year. Years 2-3 were okay as well, but not as good as Islands 44.

With Islands 44 we only had to start cleaning the hull at the end of year 3. With monthly cleanings we have stretched it to 6 years. With Micron 66 we stretched to 6 years as well but after 4 years there was no anti fouling action anymore.

no antifouling is designed to last more than 2 years

you were probably in a very low fouling area

if you have trinidad applied you are technically not allowed to enter some regions because of the biocide content but no one ever bothers with it , I mean they don't even check for tin antifoulings on large ships or do they?

Seacoat has a pretty bad performance but if you plan to clean weekly or monthly maybe it'll work for you

Coppercoat works a little for some waters maybe? it's a pain to change back to antifoul so be cautious

algae is tricky since it sticks to anything, if you make the paint it too hard then it will stick to it and be a pain to get it off , if you make it too soft and brittle it will penetrate and stick to the paint making removal nearly impossible

all in all the biocide containing paints are all hard, the ablative types are also hard but brittle so they chip and break apart easily taking the foulants with them, if the spore concentration is high and the biocide not enough to kill them then they will stick to any antifouling you use

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by propmaster

no antifouling is designed to last more than 2 years

Almost all anti fouling paints are designed to last at least two years. In fact, most last significantly longer.

Originally Posted by propmaster

if you have trinidad applied you are technically not allowed to enter some regions because of the biocide content

Excuse me? What regions don't allow copper-based anti fouling paints? Most flavors of Trinidad don't even have a particularly high level of copper

Originally Posted by propmaster

I mean they don't even check for tin antifoulings on large ships or do they?

As a matter of fact they do, not that any large ships are painted with tin paints.

Originally Posted by propmaster

all in all the biocide containing paints are all hard, the ablative types are also hard but brittle so they chip and break apart easily

Both hard and ablative paints contain biocides. That's how they work. Further, ablative paints are not brittle. In fact they tend to be quite soft.

Seriously, where do you get your information?