All electric galley: rice cooker

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, the 4 minutes (other sources say 3-4 or 3-5) is with the manual button. The rice program is fully automatic and lasts 12 minutes, after which it enters a keep warm mode with timer counting. When starting the Rice program the display shows “12” until it activates and show “On”. The next thing I saw was “10” but more than 2 minutes later so I guess the program figured out the quantity by counting the time it took to build pressure and figured it needed 10 more minutes. Then at “3” I heard clicking noises I think it shut down all heating. Then it counted further down and entered that keep warm phase during which the pressure slowly goes down. At 10 minutes I manually released pressure still left and opened it.

Ah. Right. I just reread the instructions in the IP Recipes booklet, and they do say use the manual button for all three recipes (Basmati, Jasmine, brown). Thanks.

Then in the Users Manual, I now see the rice button is for "regular" (?) or parboiled rice.

-Chris

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Ah. Right. I just reread the instructions in the IP Recipes booklet, and they do say use the manual button for all three recipes (Basmati, Jasmine, brown). Thanks.

Then in the Users Manual, I now see the rice button is for "regular" (?) or parboiled rice.

-Chris

The earlier discussion about it taking up to 45 minutes to "cook rice properly" suddenly makes sense.
Those times would be for "south indian style parboiled rice", not "raw" rice.
(Uncle Ben's parboiled rice doesn't take as long )


From AGRIS (Food and Agricultural Organisation of the United nations)
Parboiling and consumer demand for parboiled rice in South Asia [1991]

"The process involves soaking the rice to saturation, steaming the grain (without much volume expansion), and drying the steamed rice to around 14% moisture. Parboiling changes the grain properties, makes the grain harder, and gives a higher milling outturn than raw rice. A characteristic color and smell are developed. Parboiling rice takes longer to cook than raw rice, and the cooked rice is harder and fluffier.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The advantage is that I could put 8 cup-sized Mason jars inside the IP to make yogurt for our use for a week plus have the starter for the next batch. It worked but it was a lot of work.

Our current, best method is technically not the best but it just works with very little effort. We use the EasiYo insulated canister thing and replaced the inner plastic container with a quart size Mason jar, which fit so well that it can’t be coincidence. You fill the insulated canister to the mark with boiling water, put the jar with milk and starter in, close it up and check back 8-24 hours later. It always works and is very energy efficient.

Edit: we use milk powder and a heirloom yogurt culture that keeps going generation after generation unlike the modern, genetically modified cultures that die after a couple generations so as to protect their product.

There is certainly room for preference here. It seems you have gotten to the same place I am. Make yogurt in bulk and spoon what you want into the bowl from which you eat. Yogurt is pretty forgiving. Instant Pot makes it unnecessarily hard. See below. I don’t take particular exception with EasiYo, or Thermos, or other thermal insulators. My approach doesn’t require buying anything specific to the task. I put two quarts of milk on the stove when I start dinner prep (for us the most prep of the day). I heat that to somewhere between 180F and 200F. If you don’t have an instant read thermometer or an IR thermometer this is when steam just starts to wisp off the top of the milk. You are heating to kill wild bacteria and engender some protein changes in the milk. Turn off the heat and let cool to 100F to 115F. Without a thermometer this feels warm but you can keep your finger in it indefinitely. You’re getting the milk down to a temperature that doesn’t kill the desired bacteria in your starter. Stir in the starter. At this point we decant into 1 qt Ball jars. These need to be kept warm to speed development of the yogurt. At home we put it in a cold oven with the light on overnight. On the boat it goes in the engine room which between the water heater, Espar heater, residual engine heat, generator heat the temperature in there is great. If we are underway under power it’s too warm and we tuck the yogurt in the bottom of a wet locker that is warmed by engine heat. Eight to twelve hours later we have yogurt. For thicker Greek yogurt the product needs to be strained. That’s a manual process regardless. Expect about 50% reduction in volume. Don’t let the whey drain away – it’s great as a sub for water in bread baking.

Originally Posted by weavis

Your prejudice is showing. Put milk in the IP. auto heats to temperature for pasturising. Cool. add yoghurt starter. push switch for 8 hours.

I could as easily say the same about your embrace of the IP cult. See https://instantpot.com/wp-content/up...al-English.pdf starting at the bottom of p 17. Unnecessarily complex. Engineering observation is not prejudice.

Originally Posted by weavis

Sigh.. it is a good rice cooker. It is obvious you dont comprehend that it makes in a pressure cooker. That means it utilised a different cooking method.

Learn it before you criticise the rice. Cook wrong, tastes wrong..

I like pressure cookers. I cook rice in mine when I’m doing volume. I make risotto in it to reduce the amount of stirring. That has nothing to do with the IP performance as a rice cooker. A pot is better. A rice cooker is easier.

[s/v Jedi]

Update: InstantPot, 2 cups rinsed jasmin rice, 2.25 cups water, manual program, 5 minutes high pressure, 8 minutes natural release... thumbs up

The result is good, barely distinguishable from rice cooker rice and may even get better at 4 minutes natural release.

More good news: instead of the 130Wh of the test with the Rice program, this only consumed 120Wh.

This still is 20% more energy consumption than the rice cooker. We’ll keep using this at home and move the rice cooker to the boat. I’ll look into a non-stick inner pot for the IP

[Pizzazz]

In terms of energy conversion efficiency, a while ago I did a similar test to heating water and measuring the % efficiency. The results were:

Electric tea pot 80-90% efficient

Propane and/or alcohol ~25-30% efficient

Microwave 50% efficient

Hot plate (non induction) 45-50% efficient

This was a less accurate test than previously posted here because I just waited for the water to start bubbling, not measuring the final temperature.

Nevertheless, I believe it is fair to say that a tea pot or an Instant Pot is the most efficient way to go, electric plate is half as efficient (induction may be a little more but ultimately it depends on good matching between plate and pot, and propane one quarter as efficient.

For me it is an alcohol stove/oven + an Instant Pot but I can see how induction lovers can keep this thread alive for another 9 pages.

SV Pizzazz

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

In terms of energy conversion efficiency, a while ago I did a similar test to heating water and measuring the % efficiency. The results were:

Electric tea pot 80-90% efficient

Propane and/or alcohol ~25-30% efficient

Microwave 50% efficient

Hot plate (non induction) 45-50% efficient

This was a less accurate test than previously posted here because I just waited for the water to start bubbling, not measuring the final temperature.

Nevertheless, I believe it is fair to say that a tea pot or an Instant Pot is the most efficient way to go, electric plate is half as efficient (induction may be a little more but ultimately it depends on good matching between plate and pot, and propane one quarter as efficient.

For me it is an alcohol stove/oven + an Instant Pot but I can see how induction lovers can keep this thread alive for another 9 pages.

SV Pizzazz

and the rice cooker????? After all that is the original basis of the thread :-):-)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Nevertheless, I believe it is fair to say that a tea pot or an Instant Pot is the most efficient way to go, electric plate is half as efficient (induction may be a little more but ultimately it depends on good matching between plate and pot, and propane one quarter as efficient.

For me it is an alcohol stove/oven + an Instant Pot but I can see how induction lovers can keep this thread alive for another 9 pages.

SV Pizzazz

No that would not be fair at all, because the IP only has the same efficiency as a pot on an induction stove because IIRC both used 120Wh and the rice cooker is much more efficient as it only used 100Ah. An alcohol stove consumes 3 times as much so is as bad as propane.

For now the rice cooker is the big winner for cooking rice, while the pot on an induction stove and the IP share second place.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Update: InstantPot, 2 cups rinsed jasmin rice, 2.25 cups water, manual program, 5 minutes high pressure, 8 minutes natural release... thumbs up

The result is good, barely distinguishable from rice cooker rice and may even get better at 4 minutes natural release.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Hot plate (non induction) 45-50% efficient

Nevertheless, I believe it is fair to say that a tea pot or an Instant Pot is the most efficient way to go, electric plate is half as efficient (induction may be a little more but ultimately it depends on good matching between plate and pot, and propane one quarter as efficient.

You've clearly misunderstood how induction works and how the energy is transferred.

Induction is a LOT more efficient that "electric plate". Numerous test have consistently shown that it is more efficient than a kettle or multi-cooker (I refuse to call then by the Canadian/US brand name "Instant Pot"
Here's one such test:
http://insideenergy.org/2016/02/23/boiling-water-ieq/

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by StuM

You've clearly misunderstood how induction works and how the energy is transferred.

Induction is a LOT more efficient that "electric plate". Numerous test have consistently shown that it is more efficient than a kettle or multi-cooker (I refuse to call then by the Canadian/US brand name "Instant Pot"
Here's one such test:
A Watched Pot: What Is The Most Energy Efficient Way To Boil Water? | Inside Energy

Stu, you are the last person I will pick a fight with but... there is no need to tell a former Electrical Engineer that he does not understand how induction works. Despite claims by induction cooking zealots about the efficiency, real world tests show that the difference is not that big. Here is the explanation:

An electric kettle is typically well insulated, either plastic or insulated metal, close to a ball in shape (smaller surface losses) and the electric heating element is surrounded by water. It is by far the most efficient way to heat water, 80-90% efficiency and I have measured this myself.

With the induction cooktop, you may have 85% or more electric energy to heat transfer efficiency but as soon as the water temperature rises above ambient, you start losing heat due to radiation from the metal surface and convection as the air close to the outside surface is heated. It turns out this is significant. With a ceramic heating element you get more losses but some of it is recovered because the hot (otherwise wasted) air rises and shields the walls of the pot from the heat losses. The Instant Pot is super well insulated (much better than the typical rice cooker), so it is similar but not as efficient as the electric kettle.

Thus, I stand by my claim the the efficiency comparison is Electric kettle 80% > Instant Pot 70% > Induction stove > Ceramic stove or microwave 50% > Propane 30% > Alcohol 25%. It is simple physics. The two real world tests confirm it.

... and I have no idea what this has to do with rice cookers.

SV Pizzazz

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Thus, I stand by my claim the the efficiency comparison is Electric kettle 80% > Instant Pot 70% > Induction stove > Ceramic stove or microwave 50% > Propane 30% > Alcohol 25%. It is simple physics. The two real world tests confirm it.

... and I have no idea what this has to do with rice cookers.

SV Pizzazz

Enlighten yourself by reading the subject title of this thread and you will find the link with rice cookers.

Your statement is not true because I just completed the actual tests for cooking rice, measuring energy consumption. Rice cooker 1st place at 100Wh, Instant pot and induction with regular pot share 2nd place at 120Wh.

[ranger58sb]

All this yakking about rice cookers and making rice in an Instant Pot caused me to finally get on with learning more about how our IP works for rice. Delay signficantly influenced by ordering delivery or carry-out a lot these days to try to help keep our local restaurants in business...

First, it's been very useful to read discussion here. Learning the "Rice" program is only for parboiled rice, learning that the manual mode is necessary for other rice, learning there actually IS other rice, all very useful. So this was my first attempt at rice in the IP, and it turned out pretty well. (I think wifey tried the "Rice" program once before, underwhelming results, probably since it was likely Basmati, that time...).

I used "Texmati" (Basmati from Texas), washed it first, and just followed the recipe book: 1:1.5 ratio, 4 full minutes pressure, 10 full minutes natural release, manually opened the valve and let steam release after that, turned the thing off (i.e., not on Keep Warm), results very good.

I had to monitor a little toward the end of the 10-minute pressure release; I can see where a rice cooker would eliminate that overwatch. OTOH, I doubt I'd bother to add a rice cooker to our galley too, just a space thing.

Not sure I've ever had Jasmine rice, unless maybe that's what our local Indian restaurants always use. If so, I'm on board with that... and we've got a 5-lb bag of it... might be our next experiment...

-Chris

[weavis]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

All this yakking about rice cookers and making rice in an Instant Pot caused me to finally get on with learning more about how our IP works for rice. Delay signficantly influenced by ordering delivery or carry-out a lot these days to try to help keep our local restaurants in business...

First, it's been very useful to read discussion here. Learning the "Rice" program is only for parboiled rice, learning that the manual mode is necessary for other rice, learning there actually IS other rice, all very useful. So this was my first attempt at rice in the IP, and it turned out pretty well. (I think wifey tried the "Rice" program once before, underwhelming results, probably since it was likely Basmati, that time...).

I used "Texmati" (Basmati from Texas), washed it first, and just followed the recipe book: 1:1.5 ratio, 4 full minutes pressure, 10 full minutes natural release, manually opened the valve and let steam release after that, turned the thing off (i.e., not on Keep Warm), results very good.

I had to monitor a little toward the end of the 10-minute pressure release; I can see where a rice cooker would eliminate that overwatch. OTOH, I doubt I'd bother to add a rice cooker to our galley too, just a space thing.

Not sure I've ever had Jasmine rice, unless maybe that's what our local Indian restaurants always use. If so, I'm on board with that... and we've got a 5-lb bag of it... might be our next experiment...

-Chris

Try 6 minutes cook, quick release. Or if like a little more softness.. 7 minutes cook and quick release. 1:1.25 water

[s/v Jedi]

My attempt on jasmin rice was 1:1.25 rice:water, 5 minutes high pressure, 8 minutes natural release and I was happy with the result.

Since then I used the rice cooker again and it is still much better rice. My next attempt with the IP will be with only 4 minutes natural release as I hope to get a tiny bit firmer, less sticky rice.

Alternatively I can try less water again. One thing is for sure: it is sheerly impossible to beat the rice cooker, even if I manage to get equal results in the end. I never have to tinker with the rice cooker.

For those who carry the IP aboard it is pretty obvious you want this to work, but we have had no reason to take it aboard yet as it has shown that both for cooking rice and for making yogurt we have found better, easier methods for use aboard.

I must add a note to that which is that we don’t slow cook nor pressure cook anything aboard. We do all that before we leave using the (pressure) canning process. I also did not compare pressure cooking functions with a high rated non-computerized pressure cooker like from Fissler etc.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by weavis

Try 6 minutes cook, quick release. Or if like a little more softness.. 7 minutes cook and quick release. 1:1.25 water

Next time, maybe. I made a boatload, so it'll take a while...

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I must add a note to that which is that we don’t slow cook nor pressure cook anything aboard. We do all that before we leave using the (pressure) canning process. I also did not compare pressure cooking functions with a high rated non-computerized pressure cooker like from Fissler etc.

FWIW, we don't can, and don't go through enough yogurt to make fooling with that worth while. We do occasionally use a slow cooker, although I'd guess the IP could replace that if space gets tighter. In the meantime, we do very often pressure cook a big-ish roast, corned beef, etc. just as we've done at home for the last 60 years or so... and that's where the IP makes things a bit easier for us onboard, compared to a stove top PC. Most times we're making one meal for "today" and planning 2-3 more meals from the leftovers.

-Chris