yesterdays MOB experience

[lo2jones]

Back before the insurance companies got wind, we used to do annual live COB clinics at the sailing school. At the end with all present, it was great to have the victims chime in and let the crew know their perspectives. I was waiting for someone to mention the light duty crotch straps and fxykty did, thank you. One of the great things to see from the clinics was how crews improvised with on board gear to get the COB attached to the boat and lifted back on board. A funny note, one of the “victims” was probably a better sailier than everyone else, including we instructors, pretended to be urinating over the stern when he fell overbred.

[lo2jones]

Some good suggestions that might be highlighted:
Call a mayday or pan pan to establish contact with emergency services
Add a Velcro strap inside the Lifesling for lifting under the legs.
Practice…”Hat overboard” is a good opportunity.
Make sure everyone on board has basic helm skills.

[armand.seguin]

Srpulpo,

You and the crew did a magnificent job. However, you definitely should have used Channel 16 to announce "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" noted the MOB and given your position. The USCG would immediately contact he skipper, then issued a Pan Pan Pan, noted the MOB, position, and launched their assets to recover the MOB. Each race is already on the docket of the USCG, and they may be monitoring the race from a vessel that is already underway.

Note the CG may or may not have been the first response on site, it could well have been a nearby vessel and/or the "big ship" actually launching a rescue boat. The missing Action was to inform as many people as possible about the perilous situation your MOB was in.

Regards,

Armand
USCG Master

[njwilliams449]

We have 3m of yellow floating line, tied in a 1.5m loop with reflective tape over the knot, attached to the lifting strop of each of our PFDs, and folded onto the top of the bladders inside the jacket. When it inflates, the line comes off the top and provides a target for a boathook. 550kg breaking strain. Well done on a successful recovery in challenging circumstances.

[merrydolphin]

Wow, yeah, a bad one. I taught sailing on SFO Bay and off shore waters for decades. Mostly in boats 26-46’. COB drills are the ultimate test for skills. Quick action w/o panic, sail handling, COB procedures, good helming, crew handling/command ability. It all come together. The biggest challenge was COB in large seas at night off shore. But the bay can be a real handful with currents, wind, fog, and ships traffic. Throw in racing with a big shoot up. Wow. No fun but you did very well! We also teach life sling recovery mostly under sail but also power. When it’s not a “game” you do what it takes. Good on ya mates!

PS, it’s wasn’t current pulling him away. You were both moving the same in the current. But the WIND effects you ( the boat vs the COB) differently. This is commonly confused.

[Nineteen]

Originally Posted by Lucky Luke 1

Thanks for sharing you experience.

Crutch straps for life jackets should be mandatory for any racing.

100% for any boating. With the right jacket you don't even notice them.
Cheers

[catsketcher]

Maybe it is because Fxykty and I both have cats but sugar scoops are lethal in a seaway IF you lie head to wind. We did a fair bit of practise with MOB and lying head to wind produced terrible conditions at the sugar scoops - the stern plunging up and down into and out of the water about half a metre in and then out. But going side on to the seaway - not necessarily the swell was much better.

For our cat - we ended up motoring about 50m to windward of the victim and then lying side on to the wind. Then drifting down slowly. We were able to get the victim very close to the stern (we didn't try to steer - just motoring the boat fore and aft a little) - shut the engine off when 10 metres above the victim and throw the rope.

As for crotch straps - I am ambivalent. I think they do a good job of keeping a jacket on but I don't like them for lifting. Of course the best way is to have leg loops instead of a crotch strap, like a climbing harness. Then you can easily be lifted out of the water with these AND keep your jacket on.

As for MOB poles - people could use the same setup that racing boats used since back in the old IOR days - an integrated PVC tube glassed into the stern of the boat. Then a quick tug on the line unclips a snapshackle and also pulls out the pole. It should take about 2 seconds to pull it out - ours can launch out the back very quickly and with such speed it could hurt someone. This gets the pole close to the victim.

I certainly would not want to get on the radio before getting boat under control, keeping an eye on the victim, and getting the boat heading back to the victim. If someone is spare, then good, but getting a kite down quickly will need all the crew - the radio can wait until everything is settled down and stable.

Immersing transoms is usually only done for designs that are not meant to sail well in light winds. Immersed transoms are much higher drag at lower speeds. It is not rating rules that make designers produce transoms at or above the waterline. But a hull focused more for higher speeds will need a lower "release angle" and so light wind ability may be traded off for better higher speed ability by immersing the transom at rest. But most racing boats need to also perform well in light winds, so any transom immersion will be limited, mostly only enough so that moving the crew forward can lift the transom enough until sufficient speed allows a clean wake.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Maybe it is because Fxykty and I both have cats but sugar scoops are lethal in a seaway IF you lie head to wind. We did a fair bit of practise with MOB and lying head to wind produced terrible conditions at the sugar scoops - the stern plunging up and down into and out of the water about half a metre in and then out. But going side on to the seaway - not necessarily the swell was much better.

For our cat - we ended up motoring about 50m to windward of the victim and then lying side on to the wind. Then drifting down slowly. We were able to get the victim very close to the stern (we didn't try to steer - just motoring the boat fore and aft a little) - shut the engine off when 10 metres above the victim and throw the rope.

As for crotch straps - I am ambivalent. I think they do a good job of keeping a jacket on but I don't like them for lifting. Of course the best way is to have leg loops instead of a crotch strap, like a climbing harness. Then you can easily be lifted out of the water with these AND keep your jacket on.

As for MOB poles - people could use the same setup that racing boats used since back in the old IOR days - an integrated PVC tube glassed into the stern of the boat. Then a quick tug on the line unclips a snapshackle and also pulls out the pole. It should take about 2 seconds to pull it out - ours can launch out the back very quickly and with such speed it could hurt someone. This gets the pole close to the victim.

I certainly would not want to get on the radio before getting boat under control, keeping an eye on the victim, and getting the boat heading back to the victim. If someone is spare, then good, but getting a kite down quickly will need all the crew - the radio can wait until everything is settled down and stable.

Immersing transoms is usually only done for designs that are not meant to sail well in light winds. Immersed transoms are much higher drag at lower speeds. It is not rating rules that make designers produce transoms at or above the waterline. But a hull focused more for higher speeds will need a lower "release angle" and so light wind ability may be traded off for better higher speed ability by immersing the transom at rest. But most racing boats need to also perform well in light winds, so any transom immersion will be limited, mostly only enough so that moving the crew forward can lift the transom enough until sufficient speed allows a clean wake.

Yes, retrieving MOB works really well how you describe it. You also create a calm for the MOB that way.

Maybe all planing designs have an immersed transom? Here is a picture; the waterline is where the white spots stop (Micron 66 washed off by fresh water, exposing the barrier coat). So it isn’t much that is immersed and at about 6 knots speed the water has released the transom. Our hull speed is 11 knots and it jumps to 14 knots when she starts planing.

[catsketcher]

Yeah I reckon the Dashew boats arre very much favoured to the higher end performance - hence the immersed sterns.

I was thinking about how to get someone up the boat without using their chest harness or lifesling and was going back and forth with climbing harnesses (which I use for mast climbing, abseiling and canyoning, so I am pretty good at using them). But wearing a climbing harness all the time is never going to happen.

So what about going back to the old days and using an old style bosun's chair (piece of timber and rope vee) to lift someone out of the water? I will have to give it a go, but it would seem to be a potentially good option for the victim to pull themselves through the vee of the chair and then have the chair pulled under them. The guys who set the walls at the climbing gym use old fashioned bosuns chairs along with climbing harnesses so they are still in use. It does require a reasonably fit victim.

The last thing I want is to be pulled up the side of a boat by a harness under my shoulders - it means I can't push off with my feet as I get bashed into the hull. I and many other sailors who have crewed on dinghies with trapezes have spent plenty of time banging along the side of a hull as we dunked into windward - it is pretty safe and quite fun, but you always want to come thudding back into the hull feet first - sideways or chest first hurts a lot - inshore on a dinghy, it would be brutal offshore.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I consider our “sugar scoop” swimming platform one of the best safety features we have. Also, I would recommend to have these RescueMe AIS/DSC man overboard beacons to wear inside the vest.

Amen! It was a non-negotiable item in our boat search. In addition to mob, it is far superior to side-boarding from a dinghy in a seaway.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by fxykty

A properly designed stern in the old days puts the horizontal part of the hull right at or slightly above the waterline - anything submerged when not planing or surfing will cause drag. Some newer designs with flatter and wider stern sections are now submerged, with the idea that water force at a certain speed will lift the stern up and eliminate the drag. The boat will need more power at lower boat speeds to overcome the greater form and surface area drag, but will go faster with a steadier hull at faster boat speeds. But even with a stern submerged a few inches - still a problem for swimmers when the ends pitch a couple of feet.

Take a look at almost any cruiser/racer monohull of almost any vintage - the back edge of the hull is above the waterline. Same with IMOCAs. That’s what creates the stern area danger zone when the boat is pitching.

Our boat fits this description. At rest, the bottom of our transom is a few inches above the water. We have blue bottom paint on the top of our dinghy from the boat coming down on it. While I certainly do not consider that ideal or safe, in the same approaches I have seen literally three to four feet of bottom paint showing at the beam as the boat rolls port to starboard. I can't help thinking that would be more dangerous. Although in the case of an mob (as different from a dinghy approach), there are no angular protrusions to hit your head.