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09-11-2019, 10:32
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Finland
Boat: Nauticat 32
Posts: 974
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen
I believe Nauticats have a solid handrail. Combination of teak and stainless tubing??
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Yes, practically all Nauticats have wooden (teak) rails with stainless support. I like them because they feel very safe when walking to and from the foredeck. You can at any time lean on them or slide your leg along them (if ever needed). I also often lean on them and sometimes even sit on them (additional sitting positions at the cockpit). Solid rails are not the best possible solution from racing and wind resistance point of view, but they are very practical in recreational cruising, and teak rails feel nice when I lean and hold my hands on them.
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09-11-2019, 10:47
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancaster Co., PA/North East, MD
Boat: Watkins 27
Posts: 259
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
I thought I wanted tubular top rail. Our marina"expert" pooped on the idea saying only"it's just not done! "
I still cruise the breaking yard looking for just the right pieces
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09-11-2019, 11:04
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Boat: Bestevaer.
Posts: 14,678
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
A high bulwark/toerail adds a lot of security and can be combined with flexible guardrails (Dyneema or stainless steel wire).
This combination is arguably more secure than solid stainless steel guardrails without the drawbacks that have already been mentioned. At least it is another option worthy of consideration.
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09-11-2019, 11:59
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42ac
Posts: 1,196
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Quote:
Originally Posted by benet250
Why do sailboats tend to have wire lifelines whereas powerboats have tubed handrails. there is only one manufacturer of sailboats (Amel) that I am aware off installs tubed handrails all the way around, and have never seen wire lifelines on any powerboats, just wondering,
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My first boat, a Tanzer 22 with fixed keel, did not have any stanchions/lifelines. No one every fell overboard and I now look back on that as a good learning experience not to depend on them.
My current boat has 30" stanchions/lifelines and I appreciate them over the normal 24" variety. However, I never use them to lean against and always advise my crew never to trust or use them. I consider lifelines as a demarcation line between staying aboard and falling overboard never as a "life saving line" per se. I cringe every time I see a photo of racing boats with individuals hanging over the side (rail meat) heavy against the lifelines. I think the labeling of them as "lifelines" is a poor choice of words for their function.
That said, I was once helping a friend push his 44' sailboat away from the dock with a boat hook. I had my full body weight against the dock when the boathook collapsed. I flew forward against a stachion and was about to go overboard when he grabbed me by my belt buckle keeping me onboard; the stanchion was badly bent...I would not trust them for stopping the kinetic energy of a human being thrown against them.
~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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09-11-2019, 12:20
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#20
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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wire lifelines versus tubed rails
I have SS wire, and you’ll never get me to believe that if I was falling trying to grab that flexible wire is better than being able to grab a solid immovable tube.
Nor will you have me believe they are stronger as any real force is on one single stanchion, where a solid tube structure will distribute the load.
It’s got to be cost and or tradition, no “real” sailboat has power boat lifelines, even if they are better.
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09-11-2019, 12:27
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Rochester, NY
Boat: Chris Craft 381 Catalina
Posts: 6,206
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Even on powerboats you see both. I've got a mix on mine. Up on the bow and at the stern, I have full tube rails. Along the sides, it's stanchions and lifelines (at the middle and tops of the stanchions). And solid rail hand-grabs inboard. I do wish my rails were slightly taller though, they're a little below hip height for me, so not the most secure. Fortunately, being a powerboat, it's easy to avoid anyone being on the side decks in conditions where it presents a significant risk.
IMO, the most secure feeling setups are those with high bulwarks and a good, solid rail on top of that.
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09-11-2019, 12:48
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,477
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
I like the tubing for sure. I imagine non solid lines are less stress on the deck attachments/ leaks though. A 40 ft boat changes shape a lot in different conditions. I know my 44 did.
I do like having rail extend from aft at least forward of the cockpit forward end. Much better for grabbing etc as you get on the deck from the cockpit.
Water has a lot of power, sailboats are used more offshore than smaller powerboats. There are plenty of instances of bent over tubing from green water coming aboard.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard
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09-11-2019, 16:13
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Most of time on Boat, occassionally in Nevada
Boat: Custom Brewer Miami 45 45' - Quetzalcoatl
Posts: 97
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
We had tubing installed and we love it. There are even clothespins available to fit over the tubes for drying laundry. The tubing is much more secure than the cable lifelines we had previously. One cruiser told me he didn't want the windage. I'm thinking windage? So many cruising boats have a line of Jerrycans along the toe rails and/or an inflatable tied down on the foredeck. Some have storage boxes on the foredeck. Windage? Come on. Anyway, as a cruiser I prefer tall stations connected with tubing running around the deck. I seldom use a safety harness, so I want the deck to be as forgiving as possible.
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09-11-2019, 16:31
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#24
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Power boats tend to have deep cockpits not needing life lines or rail pulpits. Lifelines forward of the cockpit tend to be non existent or laughably short. Guess power boaters don't expect to go anywhere on a boat other than the helm, cabin or stern cockpit. Commercial boats taking paying customers, with the exception of sport fishing boats, are regulated by the CG and carry strict liability policies so usually have rail lifelines, but they are the exception in my harbor.
Sailors regularly go all over the decks so need lifelines, pulpits everywhere. Rail life lines are expensive to fabricate and easily damaged so aren't used much. Wire lifelines are way cheaper and do the job almost as well so are pretty much universally the norm.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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09-11-2019, 16:58
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: NZ & OZ
Posts: 294
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
I like the idea of shifting to composite stanchions and it would be quite easy to have a composite tube handrail as well if desired.
Another issue is the mounting of stanchions. I have seen them come come off when somebody fell against them. Here's a pretty strong but more involved way using a spigot mount and a socket mount also works.
Stanchion mounting
This is a normal stanchion bending under a 75kg static load. The load with big guy falling on it would be much higher.
I also like the idea of taller stanchions on cruising boats to shift the tipping point up so that you are less likely to go over the side when you fall against the lifeline or rail.
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09-11-2019, 17:06
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Boston
Boat: Farr 40 (Racing), Contest 43 (Cruising)
Posts: 950
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
My racing boat (Farr 40) has of course a wire lifeline and we never needed to lower it. My cruising boat (Contest 43) came originally with 1-1/4” and 1” tubing solid rail - it is fantastic! Safer, the sails and sheets slides perfectly on the railing, the poles are always solid fixed - I rarely see a boat with wire lifeline with solid enough poles.
I definitely prefer the Farr to have solid tubing rail as there is absolutely nothing to hold to as you move over to the bow or even along the huge flat cockpit. The sails sliding, especially the asymmetrical is even more critical there.
I think it is just a matter of tradition and would recommend anyone to seriously consider installing a tubing rail.
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09-11-2019, 17:07
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#27
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Only issue with taller stanchions is due to the greater leverage they are going to be much more difficult to mount and of course have to be much stronger themselves.
I’d like them taller myself but can see there is much more to it than merely taller stanchions
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09-11-2019, 18:12
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada , Florida, Bahamas
Boat: Morgan 383, C&C 34, Kirby 25
Posts: 87
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
I'm for tubed rails. Just some insight, my lovely wife Luann has MS and as such in both mobility and stability challenged. As such I have modified both of our "Big" boats with tube (rigid) lifelines from the pushpit to the amidships gate.
Resolute, our C&C 34 has rigid lifelines from the pushpit to the gate and the Dynema lifelines forward, yes we race this's boat competitively. Our Morgan 383,cruising only though 2 boats going in the same direction is still a boat race, has rigid to the gate and then coated lifelines from there forward. I has given Luann a stable handhold when exiting the cockpit and has made racing and cruising a lot more pleasurable and safe.
The cost to upgrade either of these boats has been less than $500. Well worth the price. A couple of lengths of tubing and a few end fittings. Easy to do as a DYI.
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09-11-2019, 19:03
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: Island Packet 349
Posts: 671
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
It’s got to be cost and or tradition, no “real” sailboat has power boat lifelines, even if they are better.
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Island Packet has a model with stainless tubing instead of a wire rope lifeline.
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09-11-2019, 19:13
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#30
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: wire lifelines versus tubed rails
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons
Island Packet has a model with stainless tubing instead of a wire rope lifeline.
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That was said in sarcasm, so does Amel, and they are certainly a real sailboat.
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