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Old 09-10-2017, 05:32   #46
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

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Originally Posted by InTheDish View Post
O.K. I don't know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin yet.

I have a Lagoon 410, besides a fire blanket, what else should I get without breaking the bank or sinking the boot stripe?

Thanks in advance!
An automatic clean gas ext in each engine compartment. A couple of Co2 and several AFFF water foams at key locations around the boat. Also take a look at how long each one lasts. Sadly the small ones are in single figures which you might regret buying if you were fighting a fire at sea, so size matters. Finally don't forget the bucket on a string. Most boats are surrounded by a very effective and unlimited supply of a fire fighting medium.

Please be aware if you have never used a Co2 ext before then watch the UT videos or find a spare one and practice, but be aware they get very very cold and are dammed noisy and I mean really noisy.

On a 31ft yacht we have:

a. Auto clean gas in the engine compartment.
b. Co2 2 Kg
c. AFFF Foam 3 litre.
d. AFFF Foam 1 litre
e. Fire blanket.
f. Bucket on a string.

I am thinking about adding an additional Co2 in the cockpit locker.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:05   #47
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

I feel sure someone makes a system with an IR detector for co2. The down side of co2 on a smaller boat is the weight of the pressure vessel.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:58   #48
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

Its no more than the weight of a small diving cylinder and comparable with a water gas extinguisher. A 2kg Co2 weighs 6.4kgs.

Pete
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Old 09-10-2017, 13:35   #49
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

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Its no more than the weight of a small diving cylinder and comparable with a water gas extinguisher. A 2kg Co2 weighs 6.4kgs.

Pete

A small one probably is about the size of a dive tank and is jacked up to about the same pressure.
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Old 09-10-2017, 13:50   #50
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

m-
As dan pointed out, there will be regulations (48' UK flagged vessel?) requiring multiple extinguishers AND no doubt they will need to be "approved" by someone, the same way that in the US they must be USCG approved. (Which, literally, can mean that there's just a more expensive mounting bracket supplied and required to be used.)

I would suggest that you contact a local fire department and ask if they ever demonstrate extinguishers to the public. Again, here in the US things may be different, but folks are always dropping off expired extinguishers and the firemen are usually quite happy to show folks how they work, by using those.

The typical "yellow powder" type make an unholy mess. It gets into everything within 50 feet and takes weeks of cleaning and washing and vacuuming to get out. It is also not good to breath, goggles and filter masks are often worn by demonstrators. And, if corrodes electrical parts and kitchen appliances. So yes, it puts out fires, and yes, it is cheap, but it has downsides.

There's a variation of this (Type "K") recently approved in the US, which uses plain white baking soda instead. Type K are designed for Kitchen fires, mainly grease fires, and the nozzle on them spreads the powder over a wider area at a lower pressure, so it won't push burning grease further away from the stove. Also non-corrosive and much easier to clean up. Worth considering in the galley or in any location like an engine bay where the area is fairly contained and full of electrical parts.

Personally I like CO2 when it is applicable. I smelled a funny bromine smell one night, at least I think that's what you'd call it. And found smoke coming out of a hall closet. I didn't ask, I just cracked the door open, inserted a CO2 horn and squeezed. It turned out to be spontaneous combustion of either a magnesium fire starter, or hurricane matches, in some camping goods. (The main damage fortunately was limited to a tent fly, which is now used as a poncho by the seven dwarves.) But any type of dry powder in there would have been a full day or more of clean out.

So they all have distinctions, and there's some merit in "universal" because you really don't have a lot of time to say "Do me a favor, go forward and get the extinguisher from the starboard locker?". The real surprise is that a "small" fire doubles in size every 30 seconds. A small extinguisher can put out a fire about the size of a fully involved desk waste basket. And then 30 seconds later...too late, the fire is too big.

Also of note, upholstery foam is usually polyurethane and gives off toxic smoke. If your cushions are of recent vintage and have fire-retardant chemicals in them, that's a little better but they are still "toxic fuel". Being able to respond quickly, and adequately, or to evacuate promptly, really needs to be thought out, and planned ahead.

And if you've never used an extinguisher, really, find a way to get a demo. Just seeing it on YouTube doesn't quite match the real experience.
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Old 09-10-2017, 14:16   #51
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Universal Fire extinguisher type

You guys who are adverse to Halon, ought to look up Halotron.
By weight itís half as effective but better than most. I think Halotron may be a liquid and not a gas, but am not sure.
There are at least two types of Halon, 1211 and I believe 1301.
1211 is I think the gas and what most people think of as Halon, think super effective CO2.
But 1311 is a liquid and has wetting abilities as well and can cool whatís burning.
My small hand held extinguishers are a mix of both 1211 and 1301, my three auto extinguishers are I believe 1301.
My dry chemicals are a last resort, Iíll discharge them as Iím getting in the dinghy. My belief is if you discharge a dry chemical inside of the living compartment of a Boat, you have made that area uninhabitable, you cannot see or breathe, the dry chemical is extremely irritating to your eyes and respiratory system.
Do not discount water as a fire fighting agent, not so good on burning fuel of course.
I think Kenomacís wifeís idea of having a hose with nozzle connected to a sink when motoring brilliant, cost is almost nothing, and you have your whole water tank and water pump to fight a fire with, so long as itís not burning liquids of course.
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Old 09-10-2017, 15:39   #52
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

I got to use a fire extinguisher in anger recently. It was about three days after Irma turned off my electricity. I had a beautiful beef roast defrosting and no oven to cook it in.

I decided to try cooking it on my propane barbecue. This is a tradition after hurricanes known as The Third Day Barbeque. Everybody cooks whatever meat is in the freezer on the third day without electricity.

Unfortunately that beautiful layer of fat on the roast made enough drippings that a pretty good fire got started. Someone suggested I put salt on it. Didn't sound right but I tried it. No effect. I knew baking soda would work but I had hopes of saving the meat.

I had an ancient 2.5 pound CO2 extinguisher in the house. One little squirt and the fire was out.

The meat was still pretty good! Crusty on the outside, medium rare on the inside and well salted.
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Old 09-10-2017, 16:15   #53
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

I have used a Halon ext on aircraft a couple of times. During a start, the engine floods, fuel pours out the bottom, then it backfires and catches on fire. It is amazing how well Halon works, just a short blast and the fire is out. I have a 13lb 1211 on the boat. I have another 13lb 1211 at home that put out an aircraft engine fire 10 years ago and is still in the green today.
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Old 09-10-2017, 17:47   #54
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

Where can I buy a halon extinguisher?
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:12   #55
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

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Where can I buy a halon extinguisher?
I believe they are not available except for use in aircraft.

You can buy the new (and way more expensive) replacement for Halon from Defender and other online or local chandleries.
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:29   #56
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

Call your fire extinguisher company I called the company that supplies my dock They sold me My Halon Extingisher .
Many years ago I had a fire with a alchole stove, and had the standard white power unit . There was power every where. Like throwing baby power in a fan !
The halon are not cheep But piece of mind is priceless. Like Inreach and epurb and Good GPS and life raft.
I was a Phone man so the centeral offices Switch rooms used Halon in the cealing in case of fire.So i was used to seeing it used. No mess and does the job. Hopefully Ill never use it !
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:23   #57
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Re: Universal Fire extinguisher type

HOPCAR, thanks I will have to remember " the third day barbeque ".
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