Type 1 PDF

[Yojimbo]

I haven't found a non-inflatable Type 1 PFD with a built in harness for heavy weather protection. I've checked the major brand- Stearns, Mustang West Marine- all the PFD with harnesses are inflatable. Despite their popularity I'd prefer not to rely on the inflation mechanics should the need ever arise. Practical Sailor has published some articles on the subject but I don't recall any mention of a solid Type 1 with a harness.

I don't find the solid PFD I use now particularly uncomfortable or restrictive so don't anticipate that being an issue.

Anyone given this consideration or sourced an alternative to inflatables?

TIA

[Pandor]

I don't find the solid PFD I use now particularly uncomfortable or restrictive so don't anticipate that being an issue.

I believe you are the first person I’ve ever heard say that about a type 1. Are you sure you are talking about type 1 offshore?

At any rate, I can’t imagine there would be a great market for one combined with a harness when the inflatable type 2 are so comfortable. If you are stuck on inherently buoyant, you may have to also wear a separate harness. But back in the days when I wore one of those on offshore race boats, we never combined it with a life jacket.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo

… I'd prefer not to rely on the inflation mechanics should the need ever arise.

I’m not sure why this concerns you?
My offshore (inflatable) PFD has three separate inflation mechanisms:
# Automatic (pressure) activation of the gas cylinder
# Manual activation of the gas cylinder
# Inflation tube

The general impression is that the inflatable PFDs are so much more comfortable than the solid one that people are more likely to wear one rather than not.

The PFDs are also easy to test, although the auto-activate device does cost a fair bit to rearm!

[Yojimbo]

Chris-

I appreciate the consensus regarding people's reliance on the automatic inflatables but a quiet rebuttal: The first two means of activation are both dependent on the same cylinder so if that failed neither would work. Testing it is both expensive and not a solution if I understand correctly- once you test it you need to replace it. In other words there is no manner to calibrate it without throwing it away.

Some testing/reports question the effectiveness of the breath inflation tube when under extreme duress and certainly ruled out if unconscious.

All the experienced skippers, instructors and sailors I know wear them and I respect their opinions on most all matters maritime. This particular issue however leads me to question the infallibility of the automatic units hence my exploration for a solid PFD with a built in harness that provides positive flotation in all circumstances. Ain't having much luck with it.

[Not a spy]

Originally Posted by Pandor

I believe you are the first person I’ve ever heard say that about a type 1. Are you sure you are talking about type 1 offshore?

At any rate, I can’t imagine there would be a great market for one combined with a harness when the inflatable type 2 are so comfortable. If you are stuck on inherently buoyant, you may have to also wear a separate harness. But back in the days when I wore one of those on offshore race boats, we never combined it with a life jacket.

+1 for inherently buoyant pfds.
My two preferred pfds are an old patagonia with a low profile and an Astral with all kinds of flotation and pockets. The extra padding has never bothered me.
I looked for one with a built-in harness, too, for offshore, and found the Salus Coastal (www.salusmarine.com/?products=coastal). However, it is not USCG approved.

For offshore, I ended up getting a spendy Spinlock with a hood and the harness release system. Before that, I used a harness under a WM inflatable pfd as required by my ASA 106 instructor. So, there's at least one (non-racing) use-case for a harness and an inflatable pfd.

I wonder if anyone has used a whitewater rescue vest (with the ring on the back) to attach a tether. https://www.nrs.com/nrs-zen-rescue-pfd/pn2r
If you ended up in the water, you'd drag backwards, like the Team-O, and could still release with the buckle in front.

[wholybee]

It would be worth getting a good inflatable pfd and jump in the water with it. They are not infallible. In a safety class i took, every student with a hydrostatic type mechanism failed to inflate. With some discussion with an instructor, they need to submerge to a few feet to work, and all did when this was met.
All of the pill type inflated fine. A few that were packed poorly because of an ais/mob device partially inflated.

I *highly* recommend everyone take the 2 day hands on safety at sea course because experience with this stuff can save your life.

However, i still choose an inflatable because i feel it safer. The difference, having jumped in the water, the inflatable is designed to support your head, immobilize you, and keep you face up. Inflatable pfds excell at this. The only non inflatable type vests that can do this are emergency types that you put on as the ship is going down. Having been in the water testing vests out, there is no question, in an emergency where i might be injured, i want the inflatable.

[Pandor]

Before that, I used a harness under a WM inflatable pfd as required by my ASA 106 instructor. So, there's at least one (non-racing) use-case for a harness and an inflatable pfd.

Yes, I wasn’t clear when I said back in the day we didn’t combine PFDs with a stand alone harness. This was back before inflatables were generally available and I had never seen a combined pdf and harness. Once inflatables became common, the problem of wearing both or a combined inflatable harness made the issue go away.

But generally, I would stick with a CG approved inflatable before relying on a non approved jacket/harness combo. True you can’t actually “test” the cartridge. But you can weigh them to ensure they are still good.

[Yojimbo]

Spy-
Thanks for the leads. I'll check them out. As to White Water PFD- not sure they're designed to keep head out of water but a sailing buddy always wears his when we sail and he's a 35+ year w/water guy.

Wholly- do you have a specific safety course you were recommending? I'd put it on my list.

Pandor- Think a fine would be issued for a non-approved PFD? Does it break regs? What is "weighing" the cartridge? Is function jest a matter of weighable gas volume? What about the activating mechanism[s]?

I suppose I'm being overly cautious. If one always made a point to harness in with an inflatable with built-in harness PFD, updated the cartridge timely and used normal prudence the odds would be better balanced.

[Gudgeon]

The new hydrostatic releases only require 4 or 5 inches to be activated. It is easy to remove and weigh the CO2 cartridge to ensure it is full. Most only require maintenance approx once ervery 5 years. The technology has improve greatly with the intergrated harnesses and lag straps. The Volvo round the world racers are all using them. You may want to try and find out what the Americas Cup sailors are using. I don't believe there would be a fine in the US if you are wearing a non USCG life jacket if you have enough of the correct life jackets on board. Remember an inflatable does not count unless you are wearing it. I think Pandor is referenceing a Safety at sea seminar held by many Yacht clubs in connjunction with many open ocean ocean races. Most of the long distance races require a percentage of the crew to have attended one. US Sailing has some that are online and inperson. I would suggest one in person, the one I attended had life raft demos Inflatable PFDs to try in the poo use of flares you were able to use different flares.l a CG helicopter air rescue demo mdeical info coms and much more. Here is a link to themhttps://www.ussailing.org/education/adult/find-a-course-near-you/ I would suggest the two day course if there is one near you.

[Yojimbo]

Thanks Mike,

Good info, will check the link on safety courses. Wonder if the USCG uses inflatable PFDs. Most of the ones I see getting used when sailing are Mustang, my google search provided ads for other brands that are cheaper but I don't like to save pennies on good safety gear.

[Gudgeon]

Yojimbo good point about what USCG wears, I will have to look closer at them next time they are around me. Maybe see if practical sailor has had any recent test on PFDs. On thing I did not mention in my earlier post is that you should test your inflatable at least once to check for proper fit and that it floats you face up. Spinlock makes some good PFDs. I am going to be purchasing new Inflatable PFDs in a year or so. Do like to say this but on one of the other forums there have been some good discussion on inflatable PFDs. Pm me if you want the forum name. Have you looked at a swimmers rescue vest. Have you looked for a kayakers PFD?

[Pandor]

USCG wear Mustang inflatable PFDs

[wholybee]

Its the US Sailing Safety at Sea, required for offshore racing. The 2 day in person, that is the best. It isn't just pfds, but setting off and climbing in a life raft, setting off different types of flares, playing with epirbs, ais mod device, cutting rigging with different types of tools, DSC radio use. It is a very complete class.

The spinlock hydrostatic may claim 4-5 inches, but there were several in the class, and none of them worked. For pro offshore racers, that may be preferred. I have a pill type, and can get soaked without an accidental inflation. However, ive had it go off twice on sunny dry days. Like i said, whatever you have jump the water and test it.

[Yojimbo]

Mike,

I looked at Spinlock, didn't know if they were a quality manufacturer. Hadn't heard of them before so I'll check up on that.

[John29]

Spinlock are a top quality highly respected UK manufacturer. I have both their top off shore and also the very light costal pdfs, all very comfortable. But writing this I realise, like most safety gear, I've never actually used (inflated) it ��