Safety and Cruising

[leftbrainstuff]

The problem with statistics is they require a large and statistically valid data set with a valid baseline and a long time series to have any real world meaning. They also don't allow us to make any specific conclusions. They sometimes allow us to think in terms of better or worse or some such trend.

Probably better to think in terms of probabilities. Ie securing your dinghy or ensuring you don't have the most desirable dinghy will logically reduce the likelihood of theft.

When travelling I always like to appear what I term a little 'Poor and Contagious'. Not literally of course. Being the 'gray man' (or woman) means I don't stand out and I don't pose a threat, perceived or real to any man, woman, child or beast.

[2Ripples]

See this latest report : St Martin, Simpson Bay Lagoon: Warning about Robberies — Noonsite
from Scott McAuley on S/Y Elektra I.


Sad that a petty 16-old thief can taint a great location, but has to be put in perspective, which clearly Scott is doing.



Hope to move onto our next boat in mid-Feb in the Windward islands (survey / sea-trial next week), so also looking for advice on this topic for the Caribbean in general. Have only experienced sailing the Bahamas for 2 years, and only issue was someone boarding a friend's Cat to steal inflatable tube in Nassau Harbor - he didn't succeed.
Have traveled most of the Caribbean from Puerto Rico to Trinidad on business/leisure, and have usually taken leftbrainstuff's approach while ashore, i.e don't flash, go with the flow and enjoy living on island time, makes a lot of sense to me.



At home, in relatively safe Montreal, I have alarm system, keep some lights on, have lights on timers at different times of the night, lock the doors, ... u get the picture.


Would any of this work on a boat ? Interested in comments about alarm systems - thinking of pressure sensors under the steps, some lights on timers, remote switches to turn on cockpit and spreader lights, not much more than that.

And of course, basic situational awareness as stated in other posts.


What's interesting about the St.Martin event is that there was 100 boats in the anchorage, so I wonder if "numbers" help or not help, or just means its a more urban anchorage, so more prone to petty theft, and not necessarily "safer". I'm thinking the latter and will stay alert. I'd make the same recommendation for camping out at night in downtown Dallas (and do like Dallas and have lived there, and have friends there...)



Warm sailing to all (this from the middle of the Artic Vortex)

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by 2Ripples

Would any of this work on a boat ? Interested in comments about alarm systems - thinking of pressure sensors under the steps, some lights on timers, remote switches to turn on cockpit and spreader lights, not much more than that.

Yes it would work.

Most boats are unlocked no matter if the folks are away from the boat or on board sleeping. No one would ever do that at home but they do cruising.

Last night i was at a St Martin dinghy dock and of the 10 dinghys only 2 were locked!!!!

8 out of 10 were unlocked, out of sight from the bar and the road. How pathetically stupid is that??

It doesn't take a 16 year old to breach this non-security, a 6 year old can do it from his playpen.


Mark

[goboatingnow]

What's all this fear about and where does it come from. I'm far more likely to be burgled in my home then you are on a boat in the Caribbean .

Where does this paranoia come from , everywhere I go , Americans seem terrified of everything , what's gives.

Use common sense that's all

Dave

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What's all this fear about and where does it come from. I'm far more likely to be burgled in my home then you are on a boat in the Caribbean .
Dave

Can you support this statement with any data or is this just a gut-level feeling?

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What's all this fear about and where does it come from. I'm far more likely to be burgled in my home then you are on a boat in the Caribbean .

Where does this paranoia come from , everywhere I go , Americans seem terrified of everything , what's gives.

Use common sense that's all

Dave

Goboatingnow,
I have known brave men in my life and I have known cowards. They are impossible to distinguish in a crowd. But the real question is when faced with imminent danger is not whether you respond as a brave man or a coward, but rather will you be able to survive the psychological trauma of the experience and move on with cruising and your life? And will, after the fact, you be able to forge ahead with the same passion and resolve you had before the devastating encounter? Whether you evaluate the risk as moderate or low, to not be prepared psychologically is akin to being the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. How will you progress as a person or a couple and what will be your passion for cruising if you were the unfortunate soul who was recently attacked in the Caribbean by a machete wielding thug and robbed and cleaved across your face with an obvious intent to maim or kill with no provocation or warning? In business, we look at worst case scenarios as an evaluator for risk versus profit and determine whether the risk is worth the gain. We would all be foolish not to consider this model when we decide where we choose to cruise. Fearful? This is a very poor choice of words. Good luck and good sailing.

[Blue Skye]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What's all this fear about and where does it come from. I'm far more likely to be burgled in my home then you are on a boat in the Caribbean .

Where does this paranoia come from , everywhere I go , Americans seem terrified of everything , what's gives.

Use common sense that's all

Dave

Couldn't agree more. I got in to a discussion with family members the other night about their concerns with my future plans of cruising the carib and they were concerned about all the crime. I asked why they felt that way, when all we had to do was turn on the local news to see brutal crimes being committed right here in our backyard. My brother in law has had his truck stolen and been robbed at gun point in his front yard in a "safe" neighborhood. I don't know where the fear of travelling abroad comes from, but it is there, possibly just a case of ignorance. I have been to Roatan, Bocas Del Toro, Panama City, Turks & Caicos, Grenadine islands and several other areas and not once did I ever feel in danger. Not the case here in America. I travel for work and I rarely feel safe in our nations larger cities, unfortunately.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Goboatingnow,
I have known brave men in my life and I have known cowards. They are impossible to distinguish in a crowd. But the real question is when faced with imminent danger is not whether you respond as a brave man or a coward, but rather will you be able to survive the psychological trauma of the experience and move on with cruising and your life? And will, after the fact, you be able to forge ahead with the same passion and resolve you had before the devastating encounter? Whether you evaluate the risk as moderate or low, to not be prepared psychologically is akin to being the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. How will you progress as a person or a couple and what will be your passion for cruising if you were the unfortunate soul who was recently attacked in the Caribbean by a machete wielding thug and robbed and cleaved across your face with an obvious intent to maim or kill with no provocation or warning? In business, we look at worst case scenarios as an evaluator for risk versus profit and determine whether the risk is worth the gain. We would all be foolish not to consider this model when we decide where we choose to cruise. Fearful? This is a very poor choice of words. Good luck and good sailing.

LOLOL.. that happens most Friday nights at kicking out time in the UK.. drunk friends fall out and kick the crap outa each other.. or a total stranger cracks one over the head with a tankard..
Everything's forgotten a coupla days later normally... hell.. some have even been known to run home and fetch carving knives..

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

LOLOL.. that happens most Friday nights at kicking out time in the UK.. drunk friends fall out and kick the crap outa each other.. or a total stranger cracks one over the head with a tankard..
Everything's forgotten a coupla days later normally... hell.. some have even been known to run home and fetch carving knives..

So, if you were married or cruising with a female, you would have no problem having someone "kick the crap" out of her since it would be forgotten "a coupla days later?" It is evident why you are single. Good luck and good sailing, Boatman . . . you're always good for a few good laughs!

[Southern Star]

rognvald, I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that one should not assess the risks in any particular country, town, harbour or anchorage visited, nor that precautions should not be taken. Where others differ, I suspect, is that they do not necessarily place great weight on the 'worst-case scenario', particularly where it is extremely unlikely - and lets face it, there is a risk of losing one's life evey time we step outside, or indeed, every time we stay inside!

Brad

[sailorboy1]

I believe the crime is at least 4 times higher than being reported.





I just made that up, but figure once it takes root than there will be less people out there and more room for the rest.

[mottseng]

Solution....move to Canada

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

So, if you were married or cruising with a female, you would have no problem having someone "kick the crap" out of her since it would be forgotten "a coupla days later?" It is evident why you are single. Good luck and good sailing, Boatman . . . you're always good for a few good laughs!

Why is it folk always insert what they 'want to see' in a post.. who mentioned women..
Hell.. in the UK you see drunk women coming down the street us guys run the other way... they started out drinking us 15yrs ago.. now they out fight us...

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Why is it folk always insert what they 'want to see' in a post.. who mentioned women..
Hell.. in the UK you see drunk women coming down the street us guys run the other way... they started out drinking us 15yrs ago.. now they out fight us...

Boatman,
Can you remember what cartoon you were watching when you saw that?
It couldn't be this guy, could it?
Popeye the Sailor Man Theme Song - YouTube
Good luck, good sailing, and may your days and nights be filled with intellectually appropriate stimulation!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

So, if you were married or cruising with a female, you would have no problem having someone "kick the crap" out of her since it would be forgotten "a coupla days later?" It is evident why you are single. Good luck and good sailing, Boatman . . . you're always good for a few good laughs!

Yeah... this is the 'Popeye'... and the song..
May the wind always be up yer ass...