Renaissance rammed

[roblanford]

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
You are getting a lot of advice.
The only thing I would like to add is to get several estimates for the repairs, as they can vary wildly. The estimators from other boatyards will come to where your boat is hauled. Make sure they know that you expect the best quality work available, and that money is not a limiting issue. Take the 2 most expensive bids and choose your course of action.

Good Luck,
Robert

[captden]

Thanks to all replies some very good info hear. Spent the weekend on the boat cleaning and shutting down systems. Hopefully the boat will be towed to a marina this week and hauled for further inspection. Will keep you all informed as we go.

Thanks again
Captden

[Therapy]

So sorry to read of your damage.

At least you are OK.

This note: "Most towns/cities if your property is damaged by a government worker require you to fill out and submit a form that your property was damaged and you wish to be reimbursed." Made me think that many municipalities/states have sovereign immunity and limits on liability.

Since this is the US you can easily get a free initial consultation from a lawyer or three to see what is what.

My problem with insurance companies is their first rule (pay nothing) and their second rule (pay as little as possible). They are on their own side, not yours.

I don't really think with the witnesses mentioned that the city will try to "wiggle out" but you never know what people will do.

Best of luck

[TabbyCat]

So sorry to hear about what happened.

Insurance policies all have a time limit in which you must report a claim, so
I hope that by now that you have contacted your insurance agent. Even though having your policy pay the claim is less than desirable, worse would be to find out that the city does not have insurance, is under-insured, or that their insurance company is hard to work with.

If your policy pays for the repairs, you will be responsible for the deductible. If your insurance company feels that they can prove the other party was at negligent (not just an accident) they will subrogate against the other insurance company, and you get repaid your deductible. Have you found out what insurance company the city has?

Best Regards,
Susan
International Marine Insurance Services

[rebel heart]

You're in for a long adventure. I work for an insurance company, and also had some damage from an idiot operator almost a year ago. $8K (or more?) in damages, and more drama than I can shake a stick at. I'm sure you've already done these things, but for anyone else:

• Take an insane amount of pictures. As many as possible, from all angles, everywhere.
• Make sure you send a letter to the offending operator certified, and have a copy of the letter with the certified reciept given to your insurance company (typically you'll work with the underwriter for this portion of things). It's your letter of subjugation, and your insurance company will need it to go after them.
• I would highly recommend you let your insurance company pay for everything if they will, and then recoup your deductible after the fact. Your insurance company wants its money back too, so they'll go after his company, and with your letter of subjugation, you'll get your money back as well.
• Remember that the people doing the work do not care about your insurance problems, or who's paying for what. They want their invoice paid instantly, no questions asked. Most of them are somewhat understanding, but the last thing you want is to have an unpaid invoice for a lot of money, and you trying to get an insurance company to pay for it, and having them drag their feet. That's why it's best to go with your own insurance company and then recoup later; get the damage repaired and get back to being seaworthy before you worry about the money too much. Provided you do everything in the order by which the claim process is filled out, and you send the letter, you should be okay.
• Be as clear as possible, and itemize out everything that you need replaced. Have the original reciepts if you can.

[migot1]

Originally Posted by captden

I don't know how to put this in writing as we are still in shock. Last Wed evening our boat was involved in a collision with the town harbormaster's pumpout boat while sitting on her mooring. Apparently the operator of the pumpout boat while giving chase to a boat that was speeding into the harbor lost his balance and fell out of the boat while going full speed and the boat continued unmanned slamming into our boat and then continued to run circles around our boat hitting it two or three more times before stopping. Needless to say the damage to our boat is quite extensive. The boat will have to be hauled and the interior will have to be taken out to access the total damage.
We are being told to let our insurance company to handle the claim which I think will increase my payments in the future not to mention all the work that we did over the last four years by ourselves is gone.
I was wondering if anyone on this forum has a simular experince and what we should do.

love to hear any imput
dazed and confused
Captden

Captden...
I know the lost feeling...we arrived at dawn, and we were instructed to tie up near a large cocrete wall, so we put down our anchor, and tied her stern-to, leaving a gap of 1 meter between us and the wall. at 1030 we went to the local bank, and when we retuned in 30 min, the local yachtsmen told us to rush to see what had happened...it came out, that a very large motor-vesel 50 meters long, came by at full speed to the fuel-pontoon causing a big wash -a wave 1 meter high...and our stern was bashed into the concrete wall.....the ladder was pushed right into the hull, and our liferaft damaged and a ugly hole in the stern...
the marina - manger promised to get us some compensation, but 4 months have gone by..so far nothing. we wrote it all down in our logbook, and took pictures from every angel, we notified our insurance co etc

I pray that you get her fixed soon...I hope your insurance co we help..

Mike
migot1

[hellosailor]

Rebel-
"Your insurance company wants its money back too, so they'll go after his company," That's not quite true. Insurance companies, as corporate entities, do not "wants its money back". What they want, is the greatest chance of the greatest profit.
And in most claims incidents, they WILL NOT PURSUE the other guy unless they are absolutely 100% certain that they can collect more than what it will cost them to pursue the case. If there is only a 99% chance of collecting--they will often take a lower settlement or compromise, rather than take the 1% chance of losing, and then being stuck with their own court fees, etc., as a further loss.
Most of them won't draw the line at 99% sure, but enough of them will come close to it. Speak to anyone in the "back office" and they'll all tell you the same thing. You insurer is, with rare exception, NOT YOUR ADVOCATE. Their priority is to make money with certainty--not to make you whole. They often need a little encouragement to get them doing their job properly, and they often need to be reminded of how they are allowed or required to figure compensation.
All the more reason to spread their name--if they've done good or bad by you.

[rebel heart]

Well, from what I know working at an insurance company, and what I know from being involved in a multi thousand dollar accident less than a year ago, what I said stands.

If you have your insurance company pay the bill, the most you're going to be out is your deductible. If you go after the offender's insurance, your boat is sitting in a yard with an unpaid invoice while you get to fight with someone that you've never done business with before.

I don't know if you've ever had your boat out of the water with extensive damage, and workers demanding payment; it's not a time to screw around with your deductible. Pay the money, and worry about who's getting paid back for what after the fact.

If it becomes difficult for you to recoup your deductible, count your blessings that at least the lion's share of the work is already paid for, and your squabbling over $1,500 or whatever. Unpaid work on your boat = bad news.

[captden]

Just thought I would follow up on the ramming saga. First I would like to report that the boat is repairable. The yard has come up with about 110,000 in damages which is well under the insured value. After stripping out the interior you can see that the hull did flex a bit but took the hit rather well. There is some damage to the doghouse where it joins at the deck, mostly stress cracks no structual damage. Two bulkheads fore and aft of the hit will need to be retabed to the hull. Two supports for the cabin sole need to be replaced. The teak decking has to be removed to further check under it, as a leak has developed in the galley when it rains.
The bob stay has to be replaced as it took the hit when the boat hit the bow. Some glass work on the starboard side, and complete paint job.

My insurance company just informed me that the town is accepting full responsablity and will cover the cost, the amazing part is they haven't even looked at the boat.

All work should be done by next spring so this season is done, but we knew that the day after the boat was hit.

We are now looking into sueing for loss of use, will see how that goes.

Thanks again for all the great information, concern and support it's nice to know there are people out there to help other cruisers in need.

Captden

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by captden

There is some damage to the doghouse where it joins at the deck, mostly stress cracks no structural damage.



Captden

If it was stressed enough to crack outside don't you think it was stressed enough to crack where you cannot see?

The town may not be as nice if they know you are going to sue for more.

Good news none the less.

Best of luck!

[rtbates]

sorry to hear that. I have no advice to offer, but I do wish you the best.

[hellosailor]

Captden-
"The town may not be as nice if they know" I hope you have retained a competent lawyer. Doesn't have to be good, just competent, and he'll tell you that he'll get the town to accept liability in writing, before there's any mention of the "loss of use". I'd guess that once they accept liability--they'd be unable to duck out of the second half, and the only question would be the dollar amount to be hammered out.

[captden]

Wow I can't believe it's been 7 months since I last posted on the status of Renaissance. If you want to see what has been going on with the repairs I have set up a blog at SV Renaissance
If you get a chance check it out. We hope to be in the water the last week of May. I am looking forward to the up comming season and get to sail her
captden