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14-11-2019, 17:30
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Canada
Boat: T37
Posts: 2,336
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Thought this was well documented...in Captain Ron...
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15-11-2019, 18:13
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Horseshoe Cove Sausalito/Currently in La Paz,BCS,Mex.
Boat: Ron Holland 43 Semi-custom Sloop
Posts: 281
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile
You mean "privateer" don't you?
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Privateer or pirate depends on who's perspective, sorta like freedom fighter or terrorist.
__________________
Jack
“It’s not so much what we have in this life that matters. It’s what we do with what we have.” Mr. Rogers
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15-11-2019, 18:23
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 5,607
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Gill
Privateer or pirate depends on who's perspective, sorta like freedom fighter or terrorist.
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Got it, and why I included the .
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16-11-2019, 13:33
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Gill
Privateer or pirate depends on who's perspective, sorta like freedom fighter or terrorist.
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Privateers operated under written authorization of a government. Pirates did not. This was an important legal distinction. Privateers had some basic rights as enemy combatants. Pirates could just be summarily executed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque
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16-11-2019, 14:01
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Horseshoe Cove Sausalito/Currently in La Paz,BCS,Mex.
Boat: Ron Holland 43 Semi-custom Sloop
Posts: 281
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
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A legal distinction, yes, however, only important to the authorizing country's government other countries would recognize that a privateer was a pirate, with papers or not made no difference.
__________________
Jack
“It’s not so much what we have in this life that matters. It’s what we do with what we have.” Mr. Rogers
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16-11-2019, 14:52
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Gill
A legal distinction, yes, however, only important to the authorizing country's government other countries would recognize that a privateer was a pirate, with papers or not made no difference.
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Not entirely, there were cases in which it made the difference between being lynched and becoming a POW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer
For one such case, and an interesting bit of history, see the story of the Confederate Privateer "Shenandoah". They continued to raid after the Civil War ended because they had not yet received official word. If proved to know of the war's end they would have been treated as pirates, if not then privateers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Shenandoah]
The Civil War was the last war in which privateers were used. Treaty of Paris ended the practice.
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17-11-2019, 22:18
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Horseshoe Cove Sausalito/Currently in La Paz,BCS,Mex.
Boat: Ron Holland 43 Semi-custom Sloop
Posts: 281
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
Not entirely, there were cases in which it made the difference between being lynched and becoming a POW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer
For one such case, and an interesting bit of history, see the story of the Confederate Privateer "Shenandoah". They continued to raid after the Civil War ended because they had not yet received official word. If proved to know of the war's end they would have been treated as pirates, if not then privateers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Shenandoah]
The Civil War was the last war in which privateers were used. Treaty of Paris ended the practice.
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Good story about the Shenandoah seems like surrendering via England was a smart move, additionally being the only Confederate ship to circumnavigate the globe is one for the history books. I think we agree on the differences among privateers, pirates and buccaneers (may as well throw that one in) albeit a murky distinction depending on circumstances and time period.
__________________
Jack
“It’s not so much what we have in this life that matters. It’s what we do with what we have.” Mr. Rogers
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18-11-2019, 06:03
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Gill
Good story about the Shenandoah seems like surrendering via England was a smart move, additionally being the only Confederate ship to circumnavigate the globe is one for the history books. I think we agree on the differences among privateers, pirates and buccaneers (may as well throw that one in) albeit a murky distinction depending on circumstances and time period.
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Yes, an interesting and not widely known bit of history. See also USS Alabama.
These captains had major cajones.
I suspect in practical terms the distinction was often academic. Like the Captain of the Shenandoah, I would not count on my adversery following the letter of the law. I doubt the Spanish or English would have either.
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18-11-2019, 09:20
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Horseshoe Cove Sausalito/Currently in La Paz,BCS,Mex.
Boat: Ron Holland 43 Semi-custom Sloop
Posts: 281
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
Yes, an interesting and not widely known bit of history. See also USS Alabama.
These captains had major cajones.
I suspect in practical terms the distinction was often academic. Like the Captain of the Shenandoah, I would not count on my adversery following the letter of the law. I doubt the Spanish or English would have either.
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" See also USS Alabama." Do tell?
"At least seven United States Navy ships have been named Alabama, after the southern state of Alabama"
__________________
Jack
“It’s not so much what we have in this life that matters. It’s what we do with what we have.” Mr. Rogers
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18-11-2019, 10:21
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,480
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
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18-11-2019, 14:07
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Horseshoe Cove Sausalito/Currently in La Paz,BCS,Mex.
Boat: Ron Holland 43 Semi-custom Sloop
Posts: 281
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
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It's interesting to read how one's perspective can change according to situational circumstances. Quote from the captain of the CSS Alabama, a Commerce raider:
"Ironically, in 1851, a decade before the Civil War, Captain Semmes had observed:
(Commerce raiders) are little better than licensed pirates; and it behooves all civilized nations [...] to suppress the practice altogether. [28]Semmes, Raphael. Service Afloat and Ashore During the Mexican War. Cincinnati, OH: Wm. H. Moore & Co., 1851, pp. 80-82.
__________________
Jack
“It’s not so much what we have in this life that matters. It’s what we do with what we have.” Mr. Rogers
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22-11-2019, 07:26
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The Windward Islands, Caribbean
Boat: 2013 Nautitech 542
Posts: 150
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschmidt
I've learned that pirates are also in the BVI charter management business. I thought Sir Francis Drake cleaned them all the pirates out centuries ago.
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Haha!! Good one!!
__________________
- Guillermo
Luna
N542
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22-11-2019, 08:10
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Matagorda, TX catching my breath
Boat: Hans Christian 41 T
Posts: 143
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L
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Thank you for posting this; pin concentrations not exactly as I expected.
__________________
Timing is everything
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22-11-2019, 08:51
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Lampasas Tx
Boat: Schucker 436 1977 39’+
Posts: 85
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Re: Pirates in Gulf of Mexico?
I’m curious how many cruisers carry any type of weapon when cruising outside the US. Seems like it could be a huge hassle and possibly jail and fines.
I imagine you could hide something but it’s probably very hard to hide anything from a dog’s nose should you be boarded
On the other hand I would hate to give up the ability to defend myself.
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