Piracy :-/

[goboatingnow]

But now the law enforcement entities are after them so witnesses are something they don't want.

Since there are no yachts transiting the area, that comment is not substantiated. Your not seriously suggesting that a lone yacht can protect itself from 6-8 people armed with Ak47s and an RPG.

My point with rubber buck shot is to use against them as they try to come aboard. You may want to take your chances with the "give them what they want and they will go quietly" approach, but it's becoming more common for them to kill or harm the crew and scuttle the boat. Or if they think you have money try and hold you hostage.

Sorry you intend to fire rubber pellets at 6 guys getting aboard with AK47s !!!
" remember dont take a knife to a gun fight"

Not to mention that few have LEO training and even LEOs dont have much combat training.

[micah719]

Anti-boarding net. I've looked around and not found anyone selling them. Perhaps a business opportunity for the cruising entrepreneur?

Just think of the massive difference it makes....instead of a quick step over the rail, a decent net means some gymnastics and a bolt cutter. Not easy, especially if the boat owner is standing by with pointed questions; or a pointed boathook. If the visitor has artillery, the net gives you time to unlimber yours, or whatever equivalent you've come up with.

[goboatingnow]

If the visitor has artillery, the net gives you time to unlimber yours, or whatever equivalent you've come up with

A bit like the joke "can your dog put out fires" , I wasnt aware an anti boarding net prevented your thin GRP hull from being penetrated by 7.92 rounds.!

of course an anti boarding net , protecting 3 foot of freeboard is going to be some device, I suggest that a C3PO might be a better alternative ( or maybe Wallee)

and just what are you "unlimbering"

Dave

[SeaBuffalo]

Dave since you seem to have problems with every idea of defense, what is your answer to handling the situation?

[micah719]

GBN, bulletproofing the hull is something else. The net at least keeps the crook off your deck. That is already better than waking up with them in your berth. Might also stop your outboard and bino's being nicked. There are other solutions to bulletproofing and changing the game on anyone wanting a gunfight.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SeaBuffalo

Dave since you seem to have problems with every idea of defense, what is your answer to handling the situation?

My view is that faced with (a) surprise or (b) heavily armed agressor(s) that there is only one solution and that is to surrender and hope that you may get out of it alive.

If one looks at the Somali case and stays focussed on yachts, few were killed that meekly surrendered, the Chandlers got out alive as did the Dutch family. While it was a horrifying experience they are at least alive, the US and French boats that got involved in a firefire were not so lucky.

Despite many claiming otherwise going down in a hail of bullets defending your wifes honour isnt much use to her or you and Ive yet to hear a women say thats what they'd prefer. Nor is getting killed over your chart tplotter or wrist watch useful either.

My solution , (a) Avoid the area, (b) take sensible non-agreesive precautions and (c) when faced with potentially fatal circumstances, do as my doggy does,

Im also quite happy to debate various defensive methods, but people going on about "guns and ammo" style responses or offering solutions based on US gun law in the US, dont add anything to the debate.

I shoot shotgun, auto pistol and semi auto rifle for sport, so I know a little about this end of the thing. ( and Im in a winghy liberal EU country !!)

Dave

[Blue Crab]

In a firefight, I want to be at Anjou's. She's packin'!

[micah719]

GBN, et al.

Sport shooting is a different world to fighting.

If you've avoided the trouble spots and taken simple precautions then it should be exceedingly hard to catch you by surprise. It is increasingly difficult these days to carry arms for self defence, since most governments are frightened of slaves, ahem, citizens that might be able to protect themselves.

It is a mystery to me why you, GBN, then object to any and every form of defence, when an exchange of ideas might help keep cruisers alive and unrobbed and even crooks un-shot.

Hoping on the good will of someone prepared to threaten deadly force on you in the commission of a crime is foolish.

Awaiting on the cavalry in remote places where they are often moonlighting as crooks is also foolish, as is thinking they'll look with official approval at your self-sufficiency, expecially in defending yourself. Don't make that sort of thing obvious.

Do what you can to avoid fighting, but if it is forced on you, don't let the opposition set the rules of the game. Give them every opportunity to decide to go away and find something less risky and more profitable. Assist them in making mistakes and exploit them. Your aim is to survive, not rack up a body count or get thrown in a cell.

[goboatingnow]

It is a mystery to me why you, GBN, then object to any and every form of defence, when an exchange of ideas might help keep cruisers alive and unrobbed and even crooks un-shot.

what part of

"Im also quite happy to debate various defensive methods, but people going on about "guns and ammo" style responses or offering solutions based on US gun law in the US, dont add anything to the debate."

dont you understand.

As to fighting and "sports" shooting, I was merely drawing attention to my own situation that I know one end of a gun from the other.

I know nothing about "fighting" like 99.% of sailors. Nor is it something I can learn watching Chuck Norris movies . I have friends who know ALOT about "fighting", they are truely scary people and dont need guns to kill you.

It is increasingly difficult these days to carry arms for self defence,

Yes which is why I ridicule those suggesting using them, Equally the last thing I want is to add more guns to an already overheated situation.

Do what you can to avoid fighting, but if it is forced on you, don't let the opposition set the rules of the game. Give them every opportunity to decide to go away and find something less risky and more profitable. Assist them in making mistakes and exploit them. Your aim is to survive, not rack up a body count or get thrown in a cell.

I couldnt agree more, especially the "Your aim is to survive" nor to "rack up a body count" especially if you are one of them. Passive defensive measures are useful, even some active ones, But ultimately if you risk being overwhelmed, then surrender is the only option. dead heroes help no one. You can only comtemplate use of a firearm, if (a) you have it in the first place, (b) its available and ready and (c) you will win the exchange.

Dave

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by SeaBuffalo

Dave since you seem to have problems with every idea of defense, what is your answer to handling the situation?

theres 2 types of Piracy The somalai type and the 'normal' boat break-ins assults etc.

Somalia, Gulf of Aden, Red Sea. That are is to be avoided till its safe for sailing boats... and that will be years after its safe for ships.

For 'normal' crime in normal cruising areas its safety at night by locking the companionway door. KNowing the area you are sailing in so you know nchoring in area with other cruisers is advisable or if its safe to anchor remotely.

having non-agressive, defense only, mind changing (like get the to reconsider attacking you, not cocain mind changing!) defenses like CS (tear) Gas or Gel, Bear gas or gel, flare guns, or hand held rocket flares.
The gel means you can squirt it INTO the wind... out of hatches etc.

[goboatingnow]

having non-agressive, defense only, mind changing (like get the to reconsider attacking you, not cocain mind changing!) defenses like CS (tear) Gas or Gel, Bear gas or gel, flare guns, or hand held rocket flares.

CS Gas is illegal in many civilised countries and difficult to come by in others, again whats legal in the US etc isnt relevant as there are far more potent measures available.

flare guns and rocket flares, have you actually ever fired these. I instruct in their use on a regular basis, Theres no way I let one go as an attack on an aggressor and especially if that person was armed. Firstly unless up really close youll miss, then they will not penetrate, and last of all , they have little "stopping" power. The resulting bullet fired at you unfortunately has all of those characteristics ( its why you dont have AR-15 flare guns!!)

Dave

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by micah719

GBN, bulletproofing the hull is something else. The net at least keeps the crook off your deck. That is already better than waking up with them in your berth. Might also stop your outboard and bino's being nicked. There are other solutions to bulletproofing and changing the game on anyone wanting a gunfight.

Every sales ad I see about sailboats reads that this "hull is bullet proof"... except the ads for Hunters! LOL..ha ha ha

[micah719]

what part of

"Im also quite happy to debate various defensive methods, but people going on about "guns and ammo" style responses or offering solutions based on US gun law in the US, dont add anything to the debate."

dont you understand.

That I can understand quite well, as well as I understood this which you posted:

A bit like the joke "can your dog put out fires" , I wasnt aware an anti boarding net prevented your thin GRP hull from being penetrated by 7.92 rounds.!

of course an anti boarding net , protecting 3 foot of freeboard is going to be some device, I suggest that a C3PO might be a better alternative ( or maybe Wallee)

and just what are you "unlimbering"

Dave

As to what I'm unlimbering, or other aspects of my defence, are nobody's business. I wish there was a thread specifically to assist folks in learning about what current legal rules are around the world with regard to guns, as well as a sober and serious discussions about what is useful and what is not....but this is sadly impossible because of the "gunsrbad" derailers that seem to think that the only people in the world trustworthy with guns are official, ignoring mountains of corpses killed by their governments over many years. Mao had it right when he said power comes from the barrel of a gun, and the derailers often seem to share other aspects of his ideology. knowwhaddimean? Guns in responsible hands save life and preserve liberty and property. When there are lots of irresponsible and evil people with guns already running around, disarming the responsible ones is criminal.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

flare guns and rocket flares, have you actually ever fired these.
Dave

Yes I have with the flare gun It was good fun On my trip to Venuzalea I thought I getter get some practice so I chucked some paper off the stern and aiimed high as I thought the trajectory would be high and the range low, but it was flat as a tack for 200 meters and quite dead on accurate. Not only that the flares in daytime show enough flame and smoke to look like a 50 cal tracer. definitly a good look.

If a few shots of that dont work then at least you havent killed anyone. Same with the gas. The jail term for illegal posession of a non agressive item aint gunna be long compared to a gun, or using the gun, or killing some local-brother-of-the-police-cheif type dude.

But remember the flare gun was for a specific type of threat in a known area where the guys have balked at flare guns before. Its not up against Somali pirates, though I did have flares for them, to make us look more difficult than the others in the convoy (remember the joke about not having to outrun a lion.... only be faster runner than your mate)

[micah719]

Bulletproofing....kevlar and bisalloy, and go for the all-or-nothing approach, meaning you protect certain zones well, and others not at all. Probably useful for marinas in Kabul, or Detroit.