Piracy :-/

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Group9

No, just the opposite. The way to stop gun crime is to lock up people who commit crimes with guns. I've taken hundreds of guns off of criminals. I can't think of a one of them off the top of my head, that turned out to have been acquired legally.

Read John Lott's treatise, "More guns, less crime." His research matches my own personal experience.

furthermore your argument is flawed,as most firearms used in crime by criminals have been aquired legally from licenced vendors before being stolen /lost /trafficed by criminal elements.

see as an example in one state this happens

How Legal Weapons Fuel Gun Crime - HartfordInfo.org

How Legal Weapons Fuel Gun Crime

Time For State To Wall Off Major Source Of Illegal Firearms

July 16, 2006
Commentary By LISA LABELLA, and RON PINCIARO

The recent shootings in Hartford have drawn attention to what Mayor Eddie Perez called "the underlying social issues that result in violence," including lack of parental authority, loss of hope by young people, relations between the community and police, and improving services to at-risk kids. All of these issues need to be addressed. But a key question has been ignored: Where do they get the guns?

Gun violence is on the rise not just in our urban communities, but all across the state. In fact, 40 percent of Connecticut communities, including Bantam, Canton, Glastonbury, Monroe, New Milford, Old Saybrook, Southington, Vernon and Westport, have been victimized by gun violence this year.

Make no mistake - people are making money off of this mayhem. Guns start with a legal sale from a licensed dealer. The majority of gun crime is committed by people who cannot legally own guns. That means that guns are flowing freely from legal purchasers to illegal possessors.

How is this happening?

Guns move into the illegal market in many ways. They are sold by corrupt dealers to traffickers or criminals. Guns are sold to "straw purchasers," meaning that people who can legally buy guns purchase them on behalf of people who cannot. Firearms are stolen from legal owners and sold or used illegally. As we saw last week in the sentencing of Robert Dyer of Canton, addicts sometimes sell weapons to their drug dealers.

Thus do traffickers profit at the expense of our families and communities.

What's being done about gun violence? Several urban communities have committed increased resources to arrest and prosecute those who illegally possess or use a gun. Gov. M. Jodi Rell's plan includes the formation of specialized gun courts, along with increased resources for law enforcement and at-risk youth. Social service agencies are renewing their efforts to connect with disenfranchised youth and disrupt gang activities.

These proposals are significant and necessary. But they leave a huge gap: None address the crime of gun trafficking. The most recent data indicates that 49 percent of traced crime guns were legally purchased in Connecticut. As Commissioner of Public Safety Leonard C. Boyle reported, "We're now finding that a lot of the guns that are showing up having been used in violent crimes in the cities were in fact purchased locally."

Unless and until focus and resources are directed toward identifying and stopping the sources of illegal guns, these weapons of destruction will continue to flow unimpeded into our communities. Some necessary steps:

Close loopholes in legislation that allow an unrestricted flow of guns into the illegal market. This includes requiring the reporting of lost and stolen firearms, and extending regulations around the sales of handguns to all firearms (more than a third of traced crime guns are rifles and shotguns).

A bill that would have required owners to report lost or stolen weapons within 72 hours passed the Senate this year but was narrowly defeated in the House, where it was strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association. The bill had strong support from a diverse coalition of law enforcement and community groups, and Gov. Rell said she would have signed the bill into law.

Fund the Statewide Firearms Trafficking Task Force and clearly define its role. This task force originated in 2001 with a budget of $386,000; funding is now zero.

Enforce state legislation requiring the tracing of all firearms. Data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives indicates that traces dropped 48 percent, even as gun crime increased (from 3,108 traces in 2002 to 1,612 traces in 2003, the last year for which data is available.

Create a statewide repository for tracing data that can be accessed by jurisdictions across Connecticut.

Gun violence is an epidemic that has a cure. With almost half of the guns illegally possessed or used in crimes in Connecticut traced to legal state purchases, part of that cure must be preventing guns that are bought legally from getting into the hands of criminals and other prohibited users.

[s/v Jedi]

ah, eradicate guns from the planet... yes, that would work, everybody would stop producing them and melt them into ploughs, until they discover that explosives or bow & arrow also kill efficiently. What's next?

[perchance]

I find it interesting that these debates always end up in the same place. Mention guns in any context and the discussion ends up in gun control v.s. 1st amendment rights.
Isn't it about time the citizens took the Government back from the hands of the lobbyists? i.e. the bankers, gun manufacturers the NRA and any number of other self interest groups.
The gun issue is not confined to the U.S. as it spills over into your neighbor's back yard both north and south.
As a former gun owner and hunter I am not anti gun but I am for common sense and sensible regulation.
Why is it that every time this issue comes up it is the vocal few (sometimes bordering on hysteria) that receive all the news coverage while the voice of reason is drowned out in this debate?

[salticrak]

I would like to know if the pirates are still up to their fun and games off Somalian waters? How long before we could sail the red sea etc ? Where can I buy a 35mm Oerlikon A.A. gun. Can I get a licence for it and are there nubiles trained in loading this weapon? How much ammo should i take?

[sailorboy1]

All this gun "talk" is worthless for much more that blowing one's own foot off. To really feel safe we need something a lot more useful and effective on the open water. Something like this:

Phalanx Close-In Weapons System CIWS Gatling gun is used on Navy ships for protection from oncoming missiles.

[goboatingnow]

I see this thread has gone the way of all other gun threads, debates specific to the US, and of no use to others. ( no use to the US either ), This isn't about what you would do in downtown Tennessee,


Dave

[goboatingnow]

Do you see a pattern here, when a citizenship is disarmed the policies of which you speak cannot be arrested. I would rather live in a country of a million armed citizens than in a .......

actually I always rise to this particular "tulip" cause I love been "taught" world history by the NRA,

Perhaps you might point out countries where citizens , who were "disarmed" then subsequently couldn't rebel. ( and please dont mention Germany , thats a completely different issue) , perhaps youd like to name a country where down trodden popiulous , obviously not armed to the teeth couldnt get weapons when they needed them

Iran - No
Syrians - no
Irgun -NO
Ireland in 1920 - No
Libya - no
Korea-No
Vietman -No

The fact that people have guns is no guarantee of anything, given the US is the only country when people are armed to the teeth (and NO switzerland is not likewise armed) could you point out out in US history since independence, when such might of armed citizenry was forced to act to over throw its government ( oppressors!)

Small Arms are so widely available , that any countrys ( disarmed or otherwise)population if the need them , can get them . The difference, being they then put them down when the job is over.

Dave

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Ummm yes. Every other country in the world.

The "rule of law" that you espouse is backed up by a countries Police and the Judiciary. Not by armed citizens blowing peoples heads off, forming vigilante groups, or lynching suspects.

The middle east and central america come to mind.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

perhaps youd like to name a country where down trodden popiulous , obviously not armed to the teeth couldnt get weapons when they needed them

Ireland, about 1915 say and again later in 1969

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Ireland, about 1915 say and again later in 1969

Its a salutary tale of far too many guns , not a shortage of them. and the same can be said of many "uprisings" and/or " rebellions" ( I dont beleive Washington suffered too much from the shortage of firearms!)

The other unfortunate things about everyone being armed, is of course not everyone ends up on the one side!!


these days of course keeping the "other" side in control , requires missiles, drones and fighter aircraft, Whilst I know the NRA wouldnt mind, its not something the average chap has under his bed...


Dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tightgroup

You mean countries that have Policy enforced controls like Congo, Somalia, Turkey (genocide of Armenians) , Sudan, Haiti (TonTon Macoute) or Iran, Syria, Libya, Germany (WW2) , Japan (WW2) , lest not forget UK and the massive destruction of Africa, or also Spain with Cortez, and shall I go on.

Do you see a pattern here, when a citizenship is disarmed the policies of which you speak cannot be arrested. I would rather live in a country of a million armed citizens than in a .......

So when are you applying for citizenship of Afghanistan... or the NWFP of Pakistan... or is it just a case of 'Selective Arming'...

[Group9]

Originally Posted by atoll

getting back to the thread topic!

so in effect what you are saying is that by giving the somalis more guns this will reduce piracy..........

or on a global scale the world needs more guns in the hands of its citizens

Wow. A super straw man argument. This will be fun.

[ElGatoGordo]

There should be some alert for when there is an origonal thing said in a gun thread. Until then....yawn

[Group9]

Originally Posted by atoll

furthermore your argument is flawed,as most firearms used in crime by criminals have been aquired legally from licenced vendors before being stolen /lost /trafficed by criminal elements.

see as an example in one state this happens

How Legal Weapons Fuel Gun Crime - HartfordInfo.org

How Legal Weapons Fuel Gun Crime

Time For State To Wall Off Major Source Of Illegal Firearms

July 16, 2006
Commentary By LISA LABELLA, and RON PINCIARO

The recent shootings in Hartford have drawn attention to what Mayor Eddie Perez called "the underlying social issues that result in violence," including lack of parental authority, loss of hope by young people, relations between the community and police, and improving services to at-risk kids. All of these issues need to be addressed. But a key question has been ignored: Where do they get the guns?

Gun violence is on the rise not just in our urban communities, but all across the state. In fact, 40 percent of Connecticut communities, including Bantam, Canton, Glastonbury, Monroe, New Milford, Old Saybrook, Southington, Vernon and Westport, have been victimized by gun violence this year.

Make no mistake - people are making money off of this mayhem. Guns start with a legal sale from a licensed dealer. The majority of gun crime is committed by people who cannot legally own guns. That means that guns are flowing freely from legal purchasers to illegal possessors.

How is this happening?

Guns move into the illegal market in many ways. They are sold by corrupt dealers to traffickers or criminals. Guns are sold to "straw purchasers," meaning that people who can legally buy guns purchase them on behalf of people who cannot. Firearms are stolen from legal owners and sold or used illegally. As we saw last week in the sentencing of Robert Dyer of Canton, addicts sometimes sell weapons to their drug dealers.

Thus do traffickers profit at the expense of our families and communities.

What's being done about gun violence? Several urban communities have committed increased resources to arrest and prosecute those who illegally possess or use a gun. Gov. M. Jodi Rell's plan includes the formation of specialized gun courts, along with increased resources for law enforcement and at-risk youth. Social service agencies are renewing their efforts to connect with disenfranchised youth and disrupt gang activities.

These proposals are significant and necessary. But they leave a huge gap: None address the crime of gun trafficking. The most recent data indicates that 49 percent of traced crime guns were legally purchased in Connecticut. As Commissioner of Public Safety Leonard C. Boyle reported, "We're now finding that a lot of the guns that are showing up having been used in violent crimes in the cities were in fact purchased locally."

Unless and until focus and resources are directed toward identifying and stopping the sources of illegal guns, these weapons of destruction will continue to flow unimpeded into our communities. Some necessary steps:

Close loopholes in legislation that allow an unrestricted flow of guns into the illegal market. This includes requiring the reporting of lost and stolen firearms, and extending regulations around the sales of handguns to all firearms (more than a third of traced crime guns are rifles and shotguns).

A bill that would have required owners to report lost or stolen weapons within 72 hours passed the Senate this year but was narrowly defeated in the House, where it was strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association. The bill had strong support from a diverse coalition of law enforcement and community groups, and Gov. Rell said she would have signed the bill into law.

Fund the Statewide Firearms Trafficking Task Force and clearly define its role. This task force originated in 2001 with a budget of $386,000; funding is now zero.

Enforce state legislation requiring the tracing of all firearms. Data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives indicates that traces dropped 48 percent, even as gun crime increased (from 3,108 traces in 2002 to 1,612 traces in 2003, the last year for which data is available.

Create a statewide repository for tracing data that can be accessed by jurisdictions across Connecticut.

Gun violence is an epidemic that has a cure. With almost half of the guns illegally possessed or used in crimes in Connecticut traced to legal state purchases, part of that cure must be preventing guns that are bought legally from getting into the hands of criminals and other prohibited users.

Got any arguments of your own, based on your own life experience?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Group9

Got any arguments of your own, based on your own life experience?

nope!
i prefer to digest the arguments offered by the great theoretical thinkers of modern and ancient history........

personally i belive the world would be a better place if criminals were put in hospitals,sick people in prison.......politicians caught cheating or thieving take involantry euthanasia,big corporations nationalised for the benefit of the citizens,......and pigs with wings