Personal Locator Beacon as boat's EPIRB?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Ah, that bit. No, the word "evidently" should be your clue that I was speculating.

But the logic is sound - if there is no seamless VHF coverage, unlike around the coasts of other countries, then EPIRB is the only affordable means of distress signalling which will work everywhere, so it's reasonable to require it.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

yep makes sense. There is probably something like a national caucus of state government maritime authorities who get together and decide all of these things then and then bring it back to their respective state authorities. Something like a State Premiers meeting but for maritime use.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Any opinions on which PLB is best? Some pretty good deals on the ACR ResQlink+ 375, which actually floats, plus a $50 rebate right now.

We have an older ACR Epirb and just bought one ResQlink, we will be buying another so we can each have one to clip on.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

I need to buy an EPIRB and haven't decided between a manual or hydrostatic model. Hydrostatic would seem to be advantageous in a completely out of control surprise situation, but I'm concerned about how much faith to put in the hydrostatic mechanism. And how far below water does it have to be before it self-activates? The benefits of the manually activated EPIRBs are smaller size, cheaper price, and positive activation by the user. Even in the kind of emergency that would necessitate using an EPIRB, I can't imagine that I would forget to do so.

So, can anyone offer a convincing argument for one model being superior to the other?

Our new boat had an out of date ACR Epirb mounted under the companionway stairs. When we got it serviced the tech asked me if I wanted the hydrostatic release serviced and I said no. If the EPIRB get released and gets trapped below then it does not do me much good. I have seen a few sailboats where the EPIRB was mounted in the aft stateroom. We also have one PLB and will be getting another, the EPIRB will live in the ditch bag.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

Our new boat had an out of date ACR Epirb mounted under the companionway stairs. When we got it serviced the tech asked me if I wanted the hydrostatic release serviced and I said no. If the EPIRB get released and gets trapped below then it does not do me much good. I have seen a few sailboats where the EPIRB was mounted in the aft stateroom. We also have one PLB and will be getting another, the EPIRB will live in the ditch bag.

I 'rent' small planes and its amazing how many of them have epirbs down in the tail. We have a couple of small two seater jabirus and the epirbs on those you would have to climb over the front seat to get too. Absolutely pointless given their required for when flying over the water.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I 'rent' small planes and its amazing how many of them have epirbs down in the tail. We have a couple of small two seater jabirus and the epirbs on those you would have to climb over the front seat to get too. Absolutely pointless given their required for when flying over the water.

Hmm… presumably the beacons fitted are aviation ELTs. These units have (by regulation) a remote switch mounted in cockpit and a "G" switch inside the beacon which activates on impact. They are required to be mounted in a structural location that is the least likely to be crushed on impact; this usually means in the tail section. There also requirements on where the antenna must be mounted and so on.

If an aviation unit is not fitted, then a PLB or EPRIB may be carried provided it is accessible from the cockpit; in essence so it can be removed from the aircraft by the pilot should he/she be able to exit after impact.

IMHO, a PLB or EPRIB in an aircraft is a poor second best to "proper" ELT although the best (IMO) is to have a fixed ELT in the aircraft and a PLB in the pilot's pocket. Which is what you will find in the state's rescue helicopters . FWIW, the helicopter version of an ELT has 6 way G switch as opposed to the single direction G switch of a normal ELT.

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

We have an older ACR Epirb and just bought one ResQlink, we will be buying another so we can each have one to clip on.

After a fairly extensive review of MOB signaling devices and much discussion on Cruisers Forum and Attainable Adventure Cruising, I have concluded that the PLBs which became popular a few years ago are of very little value to a person who falls overboard. They have their uses, and I have one in addition to the EPIRB, but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless. If he didn’t die from hypothermia or sharks before SAR reached him, he would be a very lucky man (or woman). So what is better? Personal AIS beacons. They send out a MOB signal that is recognized by every boat equipped with AIS and most importantly, the boat you just fell off of. That’s your best chance of rescue, assuming your boat has an AIS receiver. There are 7 different brands and models reviewed in the January 11, 2016 issue of Yachting World magazine. http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/tested-ais-mob-devices-help-your-crew-to-save-your-life-69914

All have merits, but the winner is the Ocean Signal RescueME MOB1 Personal AIS Beacon. It is the smallest of the seven and it not only sends out the AIS signal, it also sends a DSC to your boat’s VHF setting off an alarm to notify crew onboard. It does everything but call your mama. They cost about the same as the PLBs and fit inside your inflatable PFD so that you don’t have another device dangling off of you. They are activated automatically when your PFD inflates. They retail for $299 USD but if you shop online you can get them for around $250.

[ASTBoone]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

After a fairly extensive review of MOB signaling devices and much discussion on Cruisers Forum and Attainable Adventure Cruising, I have concluded that the PLBs which became popular a few years ago are of very little value to a person who falls overboard. They have their uses, and I have one in addition to the EPIRB, but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless. If he didn’t die from hypothermia or sharks before SAR reached him, he would be a very lucky man (or woman). So what is better? Personal AIS beacons. They send out a MOB signal that is recognized by every boat equipped with AIS and most importantly, the boat you just fell off of. That’s your best chance of rescue, assuming your boat has an AIS receiver. There are 7 different brands and models reviewed in the January 11, 2016 issue of Yachting World magazine. http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/tested-ais-mob-devices-help-your-crew-to-save-your-life-69914

All have merits, but the winner is the Ocean Signal RescueME MOB1 Personal AIS Beacon. It is the smallest of the seven and it not only sends out the AIS signal, it also sends a DSC to your boat’s VHF setting off an alarm to notify crew onboard. It does everything but call your mama. They cost about the same as the PLBs and fit inside your inflatable PFD so that you don’t have another device dangling off of you. They are activated automatically when your PFD inflates. They retail for $299 USD but if you shop online you can get them for around $250.

Very good information Dr. Sea! Thank you for sharing.

[MC2019]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

After a fairly extensive review of MOB signaling devices and much discussion on Cruisers Forum and Attainable Adventure Cruising, I have concluded that the PLBs which became popular a few years ago are of very little value to a person who falls overboard. They have their uses, and I have one in addition to the EPIRB, but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless. If he didn’t die from hypothermia or sharks before SAR reached him, he would be a very lucky man (or woman). So what is better? Personal AIS beacons. They send out a MOB signal that is recognized by every boat equipped with AIS and most importantly, the boat you just fell off of. That’s your best chance of rescue, assuming your boat has an AIS receiver. There are 7 different brands and models reviewed in the January 11, 2016 issue of Yachting World magazine. http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/tested-ais-mob-devices-help-your-crew-to-save-your-life-69914

All have merits, but the winner is the Ocean Signal RescueME MOB1 Personal AIS Beacon. It is the smallest of the seven and it not only sends out the AIS signal, it also sends a DSC to your boat’s VHF setting off an alarm to notify crew onboard. It does everything but call your mama. They cost about the same as the PLBs and fit inside your inflatable PFD so that you don’t have another device dangling off of you. They are activated automatically when your PFD inflates. They retail for $299 USD but if you shop online you can get them for around $250.

Agreed, this is why I have immersion suits on all deliveries I do here on the west coast. Get in immersion suit first then activate EPIRB.

[Franziska]

How about a combined Plb with Ais Beacon in a small package?
Now that would be a product!

www.ladyrover.jimdo.com

[ASTBoone]

Originally Posted by Franziska

How about a combined Plb with Ais Beacon in a small package?
Now that would be a product!

www.ladyrover.jimdo.com

Getting close. M100/M100X - Ocean Signal

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by ASTBoone

Getting close. M100/M100X - Ocean Signal

As soon as I do the research, make a decision, and buy any electronic equipment, it is already obsolete!

[ASTBoone]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

As soon as I do the research, make a decision, and buy any electronic equipment, it is already obsolete!

Yep, just like computers.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

After a fairly extensive review of MOB signaling devices and much discussion on Cruisers Forum and Attainable Adventure Cruising, I have concluded that the PLBs which became popular a few years ago are of very little value to a person who falls overboard. They have their uses, and I have one in addition to the EPIRB, but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless. If he didn’t die from hypothermia or sharks before SAR reached him, he would be a very lucky man (or woman). So what is better? Personal AIS beacons. They send out a MOB signal that is recognized by every boat equipped with AIS and most importantly, the boat you just fell off of. That’s your best chance of rescue, assuming your boat has an AIS receiver. There are 7 different brands and models reviewed in the January 11, 2016 issue of Yachting World magazine. http://www.yachtingworld.com/features/tested-ais-mob-devices-help-your-crew-to-save-your-life-69914

All have merits, but the winner is the Ocean Signal RescueME MOB1 Personal AIS Beacon. It is the smallest of the seven and it not only sends out the AIS signal, it also sends a DSC to your boat’s VHF setting off an alarm to notify crew onboard. It does everything but call your mama. They cost about the same as the PLBs and fit inside your inflatable PFD so that you don’t have another device dangling off of you. They are activated automatically when your PFD inflates. They retail for $299 USD but if you shop online you can get them for around $250.

I'm a little surprised I'm reading this, let alone that others think it's a great idea.

I can only really comment on AUSTRALIAN search and rescue area, which is pretty damn big. But in our area, if I have a MOB the quickest response you will get will be from a PLB and definately NOT AIS. I know, I know, CF posters will say AIS and DSC has been around for years and years.. BUT in recreational Australia AIS is still relatively new and DSC is VERY new.. receivers are more common that transponders, but even with receivers I constantly come across sailors who have sailed their whole lives and still don't even have a receiver.

And this bit "but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless". is not what happens in Australia. All alerts from PLB's and Epirbs are acted on immediately the signal comes in. If it's within helicopter range, then they dispatch a helicopter.

If I have an MOB in Australian waters, I'd want to first be relying on Search and Rescue before relying on other vessels who are not sent via AMSA.

I can see their benefit if your lost off a vessel WITH AIS however. It would then be a very quick recovery from your own yacht. But then it's more of a MOB instrument.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Franziska

How about a combined Plb with Ais Beacon in a small package?
Now that would be a product!

www.ladyrover.jimdo.com

That would be a very good package and I have no doubt, PLB's with DSC's are coming.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I'm a little surprised I'm reading this, let alone that others think it's a great idea.

I can only really comment on AUSTRALIAN search and rescue area, which is pretty damn big. But in our area, if I have a MOB the quickest response you will get will be from a PLB and definately NOT AIS. I know, I know, CF posters will say AIS and DSC has been around for years and years.. BUT in recreational Australia AIS is still relatively new and DSC is VERY new.. receivers are more common that transponders, but even with receivers I constantly come across sailors who have sailed their whole lives and still don't even have a receiver.

And this bit "but in a crew-overboard situation the length of time it would take for the signal to make the rounds from PLB to satellite to Coast Guard to your emergency contacts at home to local SAR vessels to the person in the water would simply make it nearly worthless". is not what happens in Australia. All alerts from PLB's and Epirbs are acted on immediately the signal comes in. If it's within helicopter range, then they dispatch a helicopter.

If I have an MOB in Australian waters, I'd want to first be relying on Search and Rescue before relying on other vessels who are not sent via AMSA.

I beg to differ regarding the Aussie situation. Unless one is single handing, the closest SAR assett to the MOB is almost always the mother ship from whence the MOB departed. AIS / DSC will alert and guide the remaining crew towards the MOB.

That said, some (like me) have a greater faith in the AMSA RCC than the remaing onboard crew so carry a PLB.