Of what use is a vest-side tether “quick release” safety shackle that cannot release

[thinwater]

World Sailing standards do not require a quick release, because there is disagreements as to whether this is desirable. There have been accidental releases.


I think my point about the spare tether on the harness was missed. If you clip/store the spare leg on the harness, there is no quick release function. This has resulted in at least one documented fatality.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

... Westmarine recalled those tethers and replaced them with the Kong version at the boat end and the same quick release at the PFD/harness end and the same quick release at the PFD/harness end....

Link please. West Marine recalled a tether because of a defective quick release. They did this as soon as Practical Sailor made them aware of a potential defect, before an actual real-world failure. I also do not believe they ever used the Wichard clips. They used Kong clips in that unit.

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The standards that harnesses and tethers must meet have changed since then to include dynamic testing.


The only item I know to be questionable are the Spinlock Race clips, which cannot withstand side loading and may not lock properly. They have been taken out of production.
Sail Delmarva: A Locking Carabiner... That Isn't
The Spinlock replacement uses a better clip, solving the problem.

I believe the 1999 study DID include dynamic testing, in the link I posted above. I have not found links to any more recent studies. Could you post them if you have them?

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Link please. West Marine recalled a tether because of a defective quick release. They did this as soon as Practical Sailor made them aware of a potential defect, before an actual real-world failure. I also do not believe they ever used the Wichard clips. They used Kong clips in that unit.

It seems the Wichard 7001 was changed to no longer have a quick release at the vest end after those studies. It failed the test. Along with the rest of the 47%.

I would love to see more recent data.

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by thinwater

World Sailing standards do not require a quick release, because there is disagreements as to whether this is desirable. There have been accidental releases.


I think my point about the spare tether on the harness was missed. If you clip/store the spare leg on the harness, there is no quick release function. This has resulted in at least one documented fatality.

Excellent point. One could attach it to a sacrificial loop designed to break under significant pressure, I suppose.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by BigNut

I believe the 1999 study DID include dynamic testing, in the link I posted above. I have not found links to any more recent studies. Could you post them if you have them?

I did not say they did not do dynamic testing. I said the STANDARD they must meet changed (ISO 12401) changed.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by BigNut

Excellent point. One could attach it to a sacrificial loop designed to break under significant pressure, I suppose.

Interesting idea. In the fatality, the person was trapped under a capsized boat, so there would not be much force.


A better answer is to put a loop at the harness end of the tether. These can be added by the user, but really, should be part of the standard IMO.

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I did not say they did not do dynamic testing. I said the STANDARD they must meet changed (ISO 12401) changed.

Aah, goddit.

Still, after that dismal showing in 1999, surely there have been more published tests?
Or is this another one of those “legal-financial-lets-stay-out-of-that” conundrums?

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by BigNut

It seems the Wichard 7001 was changed to no longer have a quick release at the vest end after those studies. It failed the test. Along with the rest of the 47%.



I would love to see more recent data.

By the way, it was actually a snap hook that failed open, but did not release the tether, as I read it.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by BigNut

Aah, goddit.

Still, after that dismal showing in 1999, surely there have been more published tests?
Or is this another one of those “legal-financial-lets-stay-out-of-that” conundrums?

No publicly published testing that I am aware of. However, if they claim to meet ISO 12401 they must have a certificate of conformance referencing 3rd party testing.


What I have noticed is that sewing features and webbing types have changed to mimic climbing gear. Also, I have tested many of the clip designs and they are improved. The Kong hooks are well tested to UIAA and ISO standards. I have a lot more confidence int he new designs than the older designs.

[BigNut]

Interesting you mention that. Just yesterday I found this reasonable attempt to quantify sewing webbing:

https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops

They referenced “How not to highline”, a useful resource, that also attempts objective testing.

[Marathon1150]

This is the Practical Sailor article that followed the Clipper race tragedy:

https://www.practical-sailor.com/saf...under-scrutiny

As noted by BigNut, its best to not fall off the boat and having everything set up to minimize that event takes time and a lot of thought. Its easier on some boats than others.

To move from the cockpit to the mast and beyond requires multiple steps but we are never unclipped and most of the time, the tether prevents us from getting close enough to the lifelines to go overboard. Sadly, it is now 100% of the time but after weeks of trial and error we believe that we have the best set up possible on this boat.

The person that conducted the "safety audit" on our boat prior to our departure from Mexico to Tahiti, has a custom designed and built aluminum cutter. It was designed and built to teach offshore sailing skills to aspiring sailors. The jackline on that boat goes from the center of the aft end of the cockpit to just aft of the bow. There is never a time when anybody clipped in to that jackline could go overboard. Once clipped in, it was never necessary to unclip one tether arm and switch to the other. It was very impressive.

We were fastidious about being clipped in. On our boat, folding padeyes at the top of the companion way steps made it possible to clip in before entering the cockpit. The cockpit has a steel cable jackline that allows movement anywhere within the cockpit. To move outside of the cockpit requires clipping into the first deck jackline first and then unclipping from the cockpit jackline. Just forward of the dodger we have to clip into a second jackline that runs up the middle of the boat to the mast. To move to the bow requires another clipping and unclipping. These are the two risky areas because at each change in jackline there is a moment when the long arm of the tether, even if run under the jackline and clipped to the PFD, is just long enough to allow an exit from the boat.

But as with most exercises in risk mitigation, finding a perfect system is usually very challenging. I used to be a climber and reading of the number of people who die on mountains because they forgot to clip in, or were free soloing, is sobering. The subjective risk inherent in sailing, IMHO, is manageable with good sense, planning, practice and the right equipment and attitude.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by BigNut

Interesting you mention that. Just yesterday I found this reasonable attempt to quantify sewing webbing:

https://www.sailrite.com/How-to-Sew-Webbing-Loops

They referenced “How not to highline”, a useful resource, that also attempts objective testing.

Great article - thanks for passing it along.

The author of the solo sailing book that I quote earlier in this thread recommends, at least for solo sailors that the jacklines be deployed continously year round. He also recommends that they be replaced annually because of YV degradation.

[Marathon1150]

Here is a photo of the jackline from the front of the boat. It was taken about 5 days offshore heading to the South Pacific from Mexico.



Getting around the dodger was less than perfect:



And I need to correct an earlier comment. We were always clipped in when in the cockpit except for bath time! Cockpit bathing was only ever attempted during particularly benign sea conditions and only the "bather" was unclipped.

The risks we take for comfort!

[BigNut]

Originally Posted by Marathon1150

The risks we take for comfort!

Nice write-up and setup, Marathon.

I agree about risk vs comfort. Hence, the more we can think it through while not at sea, the more likely we would be to use it AND feel good about it.

Our goal has also been to tether from the centre, and from as high as possible. Of course, this is not always possible.
We have a cat. The choke point for us is also alongside the coachroof, of course.
We are changing the jacklines to ¼” UHMWPE, with nylon tethers. Before we did not have a good system while in the cockpit, but that has been improved also with the mounting of some new padeyes.
It is an iterative process for us.