Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-04-2018, 10:47   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Goderich, Canada
Boat: Belize 43
Posts: 19
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Canadian vessels are required to carry a life ring, transport Canada approved.
Row Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 12:12   #17
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Meandering about the Gulf of Alaska coast [NNE Pacific]— where the internet doesn't always shine... [Even Elon's...] Homeport: Wrangell Island
Boat: Nauticat 43 [S&S Staysail Ketch]
Posts: 1,714
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

DH-

I believe all the items you mention still have viable use cases, but are not useful in every case.

e.g., Throwable floatation devices [e.g., rings/cushions] may be useful for 'casual' MOB situations. [e.g., benign conditions at anchor.] This assumes PFDs are only worn when underway and when conditions at anchor are 'sporty.'

MOB poles/markers [Inflatable or rigid] can be useful if deployed while the MOB is still in sight. The MOB may not be able to reach it, but it serves as a breadcrumb in the event of electronics malfunction, and I personally find it easier to gauge location, distance and conditions with a pole floating vertically in the water [with several ~meter long plastic streamers (e.g., surveyor's flagging tape- reflective if you can find it) on top as a wind indicator...]

We carry a few additional items on our person to supplement the ones you inquired about. [One is an inflatable marker pole- hence my mention and willingness to risk going a bit off topic- or too detailed?...]

Background: We wear the Spinlock Deckvest/harness with spray hood and automatically activating: bladder lights, AIS MOB transmitter, and above head flashing light.

We also each carry a waterproof VHF DSC radio in a belt holster [SH HX850- which turns on when submerged...] and a belt pouch [Spinlock in our case] containing a PLB, flashlight with strobe and SOS function, knife, laser signal, aerial flairs [2 small self-launching] and a SCUBA Safety Sausage [To further assist with spotting MOB when used inflated and vertical, or as a deflated streamer for aerial rescue spotting; and as back-up/supplemental flotation for MOB.]

All this is attached to belt pouch with light weight lanyards. [We use small diameter reflective bunji/shock cord.] It may also be worth mentioning that both radio and belt pouch are positioned for accessing by either hand [in case of injury... Something to consider practicing during your firearms training as well...]

Of course the items in the belt pouch are not useful to an unconscious/injured/disoriented MOB, nor one with injured arm[s], hands/fingers, nor one that has been in the cold water for more than about 10 minutes... [We constantly remind ourselves about the 1-10-1 rule (sometimes referred to as the 1-10-60 rule) in cold water. As a person in the water, we must make use any of these additional items within the first 10 mins of hitting the water due to impending loss of manual dexterity... Another thing to practice as a group floating together in your dry suits...]

Some of the items in my belt pouch switch to my drysuit cargo pockets when I am wearing it for extended periods [also with the PFD/harness on...]

This is just our current approach- evolved over the years- and subject to constant iterative refinement as we learn new things and as worthwhile new equipment/devices/methods are introduced...

In case any of this is useful.

Cheers! Bill

PS: I should also mention- especially if you are not already familiar with Attainable Adventure Cruising [AAC- modest membership fee required]- there is a series of articles on this topic recently published [latest one yesterday...] As on this forum, I find the AAC articles and ensuing discussions very useful and enlightening.
__________________
SV Denali Rose
Learning every day- and sharing if I can.
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 12:47   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,989
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

There are 2 issues to consider. One is how you recover a member of your crew. Yes the new location systems do make some of the traditional methods seam redundant. Whichever one you chose you should practice it in a reasonably realistic way. Then do an assessment and refine it so it works better. Locating the MOB is the most critical bit and GPS/AIS will only get you close. It is amazing how fast people disappear in a rough sea. I use AIS radios so that the MOB can direct the boat. Principal is that it is much easier for them to see the boat than for me to see them.
I also use the self inflating marker Pete illustrates. Far better than attempting to get to a danbouy that is possibly 100m away. Circling back and dropping the marker as you pass might work in an estuary but good luck with it at night in a rough sea
The second pinot (and the one I have done for real) is rescuing someone who is not crew. I my case it was two people and a dog who had gone overboard from a dinghy. This is what the fanboy and life ring may be just what you need. Also if you only do daylight coastal passages it probably would not make sense to invest in a major MOB locating system
Last point I would make is not to forget the dinghy. If you have crew and can inflate it quickly it may be the best way to get someone out of the water, then worry about getting them back on board.
Medical - It is not to well known but a casualty that is begging to suffer from hypothermia can have a significant risk of a heart attack if lifted vertically. The compression on your legs pools cold blood down there. When you lift them blood tends to rush from the brain and chest and then quickly be replaced by cold blood from the legs triggering cardiac shock. Applies particularly to anyone over 50. Rolling into a dinghy or lifting horizontally helps. Also remember secondary drowning. If you breath in sea spray it irritates the lungs severely and you get fluid on the lungs (and possibly pnumonia). If you are days from help there is not much you can do beyond antibiotics. Any signs of a cough or sort of breath developing a few hours after recovery should be treated as a emergency.
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 12:52   #19
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

As part of the licence for getting a motor boat licence here in Victoria, Australia,
You have to do a MOB drill and actually get some one back on board,
I know this, because I had to do it for my licence,

But I do really like that vertical yellow pole standing up in the water, Brilliant Idea,
That should be the first thing to throw over in a MOB situation,

The swimmer can see it and swim toward it, holding onto to it with a trailing rope,
If he is conscious,
But it would make it a lot easier to see where the MOB is actually located, Or very close to it,
Especially in rough water,
You can see it in the water, The MOB will be close to it, Makes it easier to find a floating head,

Practice MOB in rough water, Its a hell of a difference to calm water,
And try not to crush the MOB with the boat going up and down,
Or floating over the top of him or her in the water,
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 12:57   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,989
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote
But I do really like that vertical yellow pole standing up in the water, Brilliant Idea,
That should be the first thing to throw over in a MOB situation,
You Don't throw it, it has a gas cylinder the same as a PDF and self inflates. It attaches to you PDF harness
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 13:02   #21
Registered User
 
Mr B's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 2,912
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Quote
But I do really like that vertical yellow pole standing up in the water, Brilliant Idea,
That should be the first thing to throw over in a MOB situation,
You Don't throw it, it has a gas cylinder the same as a PDF and self inflates. It attaches to you PDF harness
I missed that bit that it was a part of the PDF harness, That makes it even better,
It would still be handy to have one on deck to throw over any way,
Things happen out there,
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 13:45   #22
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 623
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Not sure inflatable Danbuoys are SOLAS approved but they do sit more upright in the water; problem is they have to be serviced
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 13:49   #23
Registered User
 
OldManMirage's Avatar

Join Date: May 2017
Location: NE Florida
Boat: 1980 Endeavour 32
Posts: 915
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

In regards to being able to locate a crewman - AIS or not - it's often difficult to see a person in the water in anything but the calmest conditions.

I remember when I was in the Navy we would regularly conduct MOB drills. The procedure involved throwing over a bright orange 6' dummy who floated completely on top of the water.

Now, I grant you these are Navy ships that can take a bit longer to turn around than a sailboat. BUT, we also had people watching continuously. ALSO, this was before AIS. Even before GPS for that matter.

I can tell you the rate of recovery was about 1 in 5. Most of the time we just couldn't see him. And we were looking from a bridge that was likely 50 feet above the water !
OldManMirage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 14:55   #24
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,296
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrinocoFlo View Post
LifeSlingand learn the proper technique for using it. It’s all you’ll need.. They’re not intended to be thrown at a swimmer, watch the video.
Well, I have had lifeslings on all of my boats for decades, and have practiced with them. They are great for certain situations, but are very far from "all you'll ever need". You can't use them in big sea conditions where it's just not possible to steam around in circles. And you don't need them to recover crew wearing a harness. They are great for benign weather, when no one is wearing PFD's, and might really save a life. But that's not really the case we're preparing for.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 14:57   #25
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,296
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldManMirage View Post
In regards to being able to locate a crewman - AIS or not - it's often difficult to see a person in the water in anything but the calmest conditions.

I remember when I was in the Navy we would regularly conduct MOB drills. The procedure involved throwing over a bright orange 6' dummy who floated completely on top of the water.

Now, I grant you these are Navy ships that can take a bit longer to turn around than a sailboat. BUT, we also had people watching continuously. ALSO, this was before AIS. Even before GPS for that matter.

I can tell you the rate of recovery was about 1 in 5. Most of the time we just couldn't see him. And we were looking from a bridge that was likely 50 feet above the water !
Chilling story, and a great lesson.

I won't go on deck this summer without my McMurdo AIS beacon.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 15:03   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: None at present--between vessels. Ex Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 1,475
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

If someone falls overboard, they are extremely difficult to see from the deck.

A dan buoy and life ring will keep them visible--while one drops the sails and starts the engine. The MOB facility on a chart plotter gives some idea--but current moves the person away from the satellite fix. Time is important--and I think a swimmer has more chance of reaching a dan buoy and life ring (especially if it has a flashing light) and being picked up, than just a life preserver alone..

I would not travel without them--and two are a good idea one each side on the stern rail.
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 15:49   #27
Registered User
 
Dave_S's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

I have often thought, the best person to know where they are is the person in the water.

The boat is so much easier to see than the person so the MOB can direct the boat to them if there is some Bluetooth or VHF that will work from on the water ?

Sorry, just read Roland's (#18) post.

Do you have a make and model ?
__________________
Regards
Dave
Dave_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 16:01   #28
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,810
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
................
Medical - It is not to well known but a casualty that is begging to suffer from hypothermia can have a significant risk of a heart attack if lifted vertically. The compression on your legs pools cold blood down there. When you lift them blood tends to rush from the brain and chest and then quickly be replaced by cold blood from the legs triggering cardiac shock. Applies particularly to anyone over 50. Rolling into a dinghy or lifting horizontally helps. ......
You are correct, this is not well known and when it is, it is often overlooked; presumably due to difficulties involved in achieving an horizontal lift.

However a sound MOB plan should at least account for this possibility - perhaps a topic for another thread but nevertheless here is my short take on the subject.

A horizontal recovery (and equipment) should be the standard unless other factors preclude it e.g. heavy weather, warm water, young fit MOB etc.
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 16:20   #29
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 75
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, I have had lifeslings on all of my boats for decades, and have practiced with them. They are great for certain situations, but are very far from "all you'll ever need". You can't use them in big sea conditions where it's just not possible to steam around in circles. And you don't need them to recover crew wearing a harness. They are great for benign weather, when no one is wearing PFD's, and might really save a life. But that's not really the case we're preparing for.
Have you actually saved a person using a LifeSling, or is yours an inexperienced opinion/speculation? The reason I ask, is my husband did save someone who jumped overboard by using a lifesling and we practice several times a year when he drops a life ring overboard for me to retrieve. And we have practiced the technique in less than ideal conditions, which is when the LifeSling truly shines. We also have a danBuoy on board along with drysuits and horseshoe throwables. But we’ll continue to count on what’s worked sucessfully for us in the past.

Post edited.


Pam
OrinocoFlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2018, 16:50   #30
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Indonesia
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 3,915
Re: MOB Gear -- Are Dan Buoys and Life Rings Still Relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Quote
But I do really like that vertical yellow pole standing up in the water, Brilliant Idea,
That should be the first thing to throw over in a MOB situation,
You Don't throw it, it has a gas cylinder the same as a PDF and self inflates. It attaches to you PDF harness

Plastimo makes both a personal inflatable dan buoy that fits in a pouch attached to your PFD belt and a boat launched one. The boat launched one is quite a bit larger and provides 150N flotation, while the personal one uses the person as the support and is not quite as tall.

https://www.plastimo.com/en/safety/i...dan-buoys.html

For sure even with a personal AIS locater a dan buoy helps find the MOB for the last couple hundred metres in any seas.

Hand held VHF radios make a lot of sense to enable the MOB to talk the boat back to them. While Google has found me a number of handheld VHFs with DSC and GPS capabilities (eg IC-M91D) I haven’t found one with AIS transmit capabilities that a previous poster mentioned. And as soon as you add DSC and GPS to a handheld VHF it gets bigger, heavier and more power hungry, so for mounting on a PFD a simple and small handheld VHF might be best.

In any case, you do need to be conscious to operate a radio and send a DSC call, while a personal AIS MOB unit will transmit automatically.
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gear, mob

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DAN Boater vs. DAN diver vs other options Boatguy30 Liveaboard's Forum 2 08-05-2017 16:29
Opencpn Dokuwiki Migration -MOB- Help Needed!!! MOB rgleason OpenCPN 87 20-12-2016 10:12
What are the most relevant software's I should install? Izikalvo Navigation 4 06-07-2016 19:27
For Sale: McMurdo Guardian MOB System TWO MOB watches and Receiver petedd Classifieds Archive 1 26-09-2015 16:31
Ship safety, SOLAS and national regulation - are they relevant to yachts roland stockham Seamanship & Boat Handling 13 02-11-2013 03:31

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.