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Old 31-12-2020, 11:17   #16
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Originally Posted by ArmySailor View Post
I'm also trying to figure out how to install a "T" juncture at the engine intake so I can use the engine to intake water from the bilge as a 3rd option. last option ?
Yes, I did that, T in the hose between Kingston cock on the saildrive and water pump">raw water pump. Plus an open/close valve on the leg of the T and a length of hose of about 2 metres (which is coiled next to the engine when not needed). Main purpose is to flush fresh water through the engine prior to shutting down (for a longer period) by putting the hose in a bucket or two, opening the valve and closing the inlet on the saildrive. Once the bucket(s) are empty the engine is shut down.

This set up could conceivably be used as an emergency pump. I think the engine uses water at quite a rate so could be useful. But... I am a little paranoid about hitting something solid needing something a bit more beefy still and for that I have a 12V 8000 gph submersible pump + fireman's hose on standby in a locker somewhere. Whether I will ever be able to use that pump in anger I somehow doubt (batteries may already be under water, a bit of panic setting in, etc). However, to increase the odds I am thinking of giving that pump a permanent position, just don't know where at the moment since I don't have much of a bilge. And then practice getting it running in perhaps less than 30 secs (requiring only the rolling out of the hose and flicking a switch at the pump).
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Old 31-12-2020, 11:17   #17
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Stay on dry land!! or never get to Mauritius.
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Old 31-12-2020, 11:43   #18
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

I have to say that this gives a good “think about” list for the untrained/inexperienced. My position in this is that I spent several years submerged on submarines. We drill all week on every boat in the fleet. Everyone on board any afloat vessel needs to know how to stop flooding, fight fires, don/wear protective gear, stop/subdue injuries and recover MOBs. Experience is a good teacher but does not train for or reinforce good casualty response.
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Old 31-12-2020, 11:49   #19
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Being prepared is an important part of being a responsible sailor.

Relying on your bilge pumps or your manual bilge pumps. Those are for getting the water out after you've stopped the leak. A 2 inch hole will put 55 gallons of water into your boat in under a minute. You might consider as well the above mentioned Tee fitting to use your engine as a pump and/or buy a high capacity water pump like for a flooded basement and have a means to power it. 1st thing to do though is find the leak and slow it down (stuff something into it, cushion, clothes) and stop it.

Fire. Good suggestions so far. I'd add an automatic fire suppression system to the engine room. And a fire port to the engine area as well.

Singlehanding. Tethered in no matter how calm it is.
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Old 31-12-2020, 12:52   #20
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Your engine raw water pump is probably less than 6 gpm. You can have junk from the bilge clog up the pump just when you need it. You can get 12V trash pumps that would run off what the alternator puts out. Or regular high volume marine bilge pumps. Better to leave the engine cooling alone and use the motor to generate electricity which can move much more water much faster than your raw water pump will.
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Old 31-12-2020, 14:03   #21
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Originally Posted by bensolomon View Post
Most important....fire blanket in the galley.



Ah. Got one. Forgot to put it on the list.
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Old 31-12-2020, 14:06   #22
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Originally Posted by HeinSdL View Post
Yes, I did that, T in the hose between Kingston cock on the saildrive and raw water pump. Plus an open/close valve on the leg of the T and a length of hose of about 2 metres (which is coiled next to the engine when not needed). Main purpose is to flush fresh water through the engine prior to shutting down (for a longer period) by putting the hose in a bucket or two, opening the valve and closing the inlet on the saildrive. Once the bucket(s) are empty the engine is shut down.

This set up could conceivably be used as an emergency pump. I think the engine uses water at quite a rate so could be useful. But... I am a little paranoid about hitting something solid needing something a bit more beefy still and for that I have a 12V 8000 gph submersible pump + fireman's hose on standby in a locker somewhere. Whether I will ever be able to use that pump in anger I somehow doubt (batteries may already be under water, a bit of panic setting in, etc). However, to increase the odds I am thinking of giving that pump a permanent position, just don't know where at the moment since I don't have much of a bilge. And then practice getting it running in perhaps less than 30 secs (requiring only the rolling out of the hose and flicking a switch at the pump).

This is great stuff. Thank you. My boat is only 28, and I'm extremely limited on space for gear, I'm not sure an additional pump is do able. If I can't run the engine with a T-fitting (and yes, a strum box as a filter in the bilge) to help me out while I address any leak...I'm not sure I would be able to do much more. Not sure. I will look at an additional pump.
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Old 31-12-2020, 14:13   #23
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Originally Posted by Cpt Mark View Post
Being prepared is an important part of being a responsible sailor.

Relying on your bilge pumps or your manual bilge pumps. Those are for getting the water out after you've stopped the leak. A 2 inch hole will put 55 gallons of water into your boat in under a minute. You might consider as well the above mentioned Tee fitting to use your engine as a pump and/or buy a high capacity water pump like for a flooded basement and have a means to power it. 1st thing to do though is find the leak and slow it down (stuff something into it, cushion, clothes) and stop it.

Fire. Good suggestions so far. I'd add an automatic fire suppression system to the engine room. And a fire port to the engine area as well.

Singlehanding. Tethered in no matter how calm it is.

For the leak - I have this tub of "stay afloat" , you just jam it into anything. No mixing, nothing. It's like a really greasy wax substance. Just fistfulls of it into holes. It's amazing. I practiced with one tub first. Note: it takes about 99 hand washing to get off.



For more permanent fixes, when time allows, I have two part underwater epoxy.



I also have this small traffic cone thing made out of foam that you can jam into holes. I do have the round pine pegs next to each seacock, but I'm not confident that seacock failure will be a nice round hole. I like this foam thing. I can cut it, tear it, or jam it in any strange hole.
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Old 31-12-2020, 14:21   #24
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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I have to say that this gives a good “think about” list for the untrained/inexperienced. My position in this is that I spent several years submerged on submarines. We drill all week on every boat in the fleet. Everyone on board any afloat vessel needs to know how to stop flooding, fight fires, don/wear protective gear, stop/subdue injuries and recover MOBs. Experience is a good teacher but does not train for or reinforce good casualty response.

The implied tasks behind most of these things is to keep training myself, yup.
It's not intended to just be a "think about" list. I have a lot of other things that I'm currently training on, not necessarily all safety related. I grade myself as either red, amber, or green. I consider myself green on a few of these, amber a few, but majority red. Examples:


Docking, using spring line to shove off.

night light identification

dead reckoning, celestial (just noon sights so far)
using radar
hasty raising sail if engine dies while motoring in restricted waterway
runaway engine (fuel or air cutoff, or both)
bleeding engine while underway
reefing

heaving to and using sea anchor
using an anchor to kedge off
ascending mast (i'm petrified of this one)
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Old 31-12-2020, 14:22   #25
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Regarding risk of falling overboard, I'd suggest a Garmin Mini attached to your harness/life jacket.
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Old 31-12-2020, 15:26   #26
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Just a quick comment relating to loss of rig. You should have onboard the means to cut away standing rigging. If you are dismasted in a seaway you may need to cut stays/shrouds to either get spars back aboard or to set them free so they don't hole the hull.
the best way to clear away broken mast etc is not to cut the rigging. instead, simply remove the clevis pin/s that connect the rigging to the chain plates. much easier and no special tools required.

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Old 31-12-2020, 16:21   #27
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

A few thoughts based on my experience. I assume this is your first ocean crossing so it is too be expected that you will want to really organized. Perhaps you have gone overboard in some respects. Comments on your topics
Rudder loss - highly unlikely with a boat like your Shannon but a cable break is entirely possible. If you have a wheel a cable break is a possibility. I inspected the cables before leaving to cross the Indian Ocean, had a break in the only place I would not get at to inspect. Try out your emergency tiller in at least moderate conditions. How does it attach and at what angle. Is it long enough to be used by hand or do you need to rig tackles. Forget about oil bags, you won't use them and the oil you would need would take up too much space.

Rigging - Inspect the entire rig carefully before going. Have one cable long enough and strong enough to replace any of your cables and mechanical fastenings. In this day and age, Dyneema way make more sense. Think about how you would jury rig in various circumstances. A good thing to do during night watches is to play, 'what would I do if ...'

Most important for avoiding collisions is to keep a good watch all around and at the electronic aids. If a vessel will get close to you, give them a call just to say hello and to make sure they see you. The officer on watch is likely bored and does not mind a chat.

Falling overboard - Even if the wind quits (and where you are going this is highly unlikely) there will still be a sloppy, irregular swell. You are much more likely to take a tumble in these conditions than when it is sporty and you are being careful.

Injury - You need perhaps four levels of pain killer ranging from Advil on up to handle different situations. We eventually ended up with four kinds of antibiotics since the ones that are good for gastro do nothing for a toothache. We had them for skin, gastro, dental and respiratory. A surgeon friend recommended a skin stapler when I asked about suture lessons. If you know a surgeon you probably can get a free one since they are often left over (unused and sterile) after surgery.

Knockdown - highly unlikely where you are going and I assume when; spent some time visualization what could fall and where. With a Shannon chances are that hatch boards and floor boards are heavy enough you would not want them flying around the cabin. We were only knocked down once. The large, heavy chart table opened and ours digital camera ended up on the floor soaked in seawater.

Self-steering - If you have a reliable vane and autopilot you do not need a second AP since the one you have is really just a backup for the vane. Make sure you can use the vane effectively before you go.
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Old 31-12-2020, 16:51   #28
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Quote:
A good thing to do during night watches is to play, 'what would I do if ...'
Or try holding up a split pin on a night watch and say "look what I found on deck".

Falling over board. I have used either folding steps on the transom to be able to reach the ladder or if underway webbing rope/steps hung over the sides where I would end up if dragged down the jack lines. Then I rigged my jack lines so they're on the centerline and I can't fall over the sides. Separate jack lines fore and aft of mast and a spare short tether at the mast so I can clip on like climbing a phone pole.

I have had two occasions where the waves weren't THAT bad out but getting hit just right by one of the "rogue" big ones knocked me down. Its amazing how much stuff you thought was secure is now on the floor or all over the cabin in the case of that 2L rum jug....Then there's the out of the blue, all of a sudden, there is two feet of water in the cockpit. Make sure you have the hatch boards secured.

If sailing alone and it's snotty I rig "hula hoops" about 5' in diameter of webbing that can be held onto to get to the other side of the cockpit or slipped over my head and put under my arm pits to allow working the windward winches without holding onto the boat. They wrap under the cockpit cleats with a cow loop.
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Old 01-01-2021, 12:57   #29
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

Most single and double handed sailors have come to terms with the fact that if you fall overboard on a solo watch, you are finished.
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Old 01-01-2021, 14:25   #30
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Re: Mitigation Tactics for Various Issues

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Most single and double handed sailors have come to terms with the fact that if you fall overboard on a solo watch, you are finished.
yep...agree. at least i have.

when solo the last thing i say to myself before going out on deck is 'ok, if you go over, you are dead'. focuses the mind wonderfully...

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