Man Overboard, new product

[Halifax Sailor]

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/cit...ard/1547387741

Found this, I have no affiliation or financial interest but looking at it may be the answer to me single handing all the time. May help keeping the admiral a little less stressed.

[psk125]

Interesting. You can get the buoy to deploy when you're single handing. How do you get the boat to turn around? Can you put a sea anchor on the retaining hook as well? Good that it can be deployed with the signal or used manually.

[tkeithlu]

OK. It quickly deploys a life ring attached to the boat. Let's play with a single-handed scenario.

In you go, and it deploys. If you were on the tiller/wheel such that the boat comes up into the wind and sits there, you swim to the bouy and then work your way up the line to the transom and climb aboard. That's good.

In you go and you were on autopilot or balanced rig, such that he boat keeps going. Pretty likely for falling overboard, because you fell from the foredeck. You've got to get to the ring before the line goes taut, and then hang on for dear life while the boat drags you. Not so good, but a plausible save.

Compare these scenarios with a midline jackline. You stay hooked on whenever you are out of the cabin. It's short enough that you can climb back on board if you slip, and you have two carabiners on your tether so you can stay hooked on as you go around the mast or other end points in the jackline. You've run all your rope to the cockpit and have roller reefing, so having to go on the foredeck is rare. A PITA when you have to work your way to the bow, but you are tied down. Good.

In 1962 the first mate of the Doubloon climbed back on board half an hour after she did a 360 degree roll in a storm off Charleston, SC. He had been hanging under the fantail by his safety belt. Yeah. In the same era we trailed a line with a small float on the end as something to grab if you went MOB.

So, my cumulative thinking is that this new system has some utility, but it's marginal, and I can readily design greater safety than it supplies with ordinary components like safety belts and jacklines.

[thinwater]

^^ To continue.


Yes, the boat may stop into the wind. And if the main is out or you are rigged for down wind, probably not.



You could pull yourself up the line. Try that with water ski rope sometime. At about 3-4 knots you will fail. At 7-10 knots you have no chance whatsoever.


Yes, you can stop the boat with a chute or drogue. I tested it, for fun, up to 12 knots, sail and power.



Sail Delmarva: Search results for last chance line. You can hear the motor bog down when the line comes tight.





In fact, the ring is not needed, since the line is tight and stays on the surface.


Downsides? Sure. The swimmer must trigger it. The boat cannot be maneuvered once it is triggered. The boat does not stop completely if there are still sails up.


Much better to stay on the boat. But it was a fun test.

[guyrj33]

interesting kickstarter idea, it appears to be an automatically deployed lifesling.
also found it interesting that the audio was machine generated.

[Idlegreg]

Well it might be a some use in some cases - but what it has over other existing devices could probably be better acheived by towing a rope with some sort of grab handle(s) on it. This device depends on a gadget working to release it, I suppose in response to you falling in the water, so by definition I would imagine the buoy lands in the water ahead of you and you must swim to it before it starts rushing away from you at boat speed - whereas a towed line (cheap and reliable) is going to be passing you by, for a short while at least.


It might be more use to have an automatically deployed Lifebuoy that is not attached to the boat (possibly that already exisits).



The idea of a buoyant sling with a floating line attached to the boat (as in a Lifesling which I and many others already have on our boats) is more relevant once an active crew are returning to a MOB with the intention of picking them up.


And when it comes to alarms I would prefer a personal AIS Beacon, which will help any crew (even on other boats) know you have gone over and also help them find you in the water.


Of course the best solution, as said by others above, is to use jackstays and a harness to stay aboard in the first place. I have actually gone in the water offshore - when pretty much drifting along in calm weather - I was hanging on to the mainsheet. My boat has very low freeboard but just the motion of the boat at maybe 2.5 Kts was enough to make me virtually helpless, dragged along sideways - it was only my crew securing a ladder in place that gave me a chance to get back aboard.


I know there are some fit and strong people who might be able to swim to the ring and grab it then work themselves up to the boat and get aboard but my guess is they represent a tiny minority and most of use would do well to adopt other strategies.

[waterman46]

The video said nothing about the trigger mechanism other than I assume the little black device was a remote trigger. Hope that trigger will work after immersion in salt water but I doubt the range is sufficient. It would take a few seconds, or longer for a man overboard to trigger it.

I like the quick deployment but does it use a floating line? The traditional MOB tethered device (Lifesling) requires digging it out of a bag and thowing it overboard, and the polypro line is good for floating but does not run out freely at first.

Stopping the boat with a big drogue is a great idea - I had not thought of that.

[pushstudios]

I read somewhere that trailing a line for solo sailors is the the least that should done. One person found a way to attach it to a quick release on their windvane - when the line was pulled, it disengaged the auto steering, so the boat would eventually come into the wind and one would have at least a chance of swimming back to the boat.

Does anyone see any potential downsides to this approach? At 5 knots, how long a line would you need to drag to give yourself 10 - 20 seconds to catch it? Is that time frame reasonable? It's something I would want to practice. . .

[David B]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

OK. It quickly deploys a life ring attached to the boat. Let's play with a single-handed scenario.

In you go, and it deploys. If you were on the tiller/wheel such that the boat comes up into the wind and sits there, you swim to the bouy and then work your way up the line to the transom and climb aboard. That's good.

In you go and you were on autopilot or balanced rig, such that he boat keeps going. Pretty likely for falling overboard, because you fell from the foredeck. You've got to get to the ring before the line goes taut, and then hang on for dear life while the boat drags you. Not so good, but a plausible save.

Compare these scenarios with a midline jackline. You stay hooked on whenever you are out of the cabin. It's short enough that you can climb back on board if you slip, and you have two carabiners on your tether so you can stay hooked on as you go around the mast or other end points in the jackline. You've run all your rope to the cockpit and have roller reefing, so having to go on the foredeck is rare. A PITA when you have to work your way to the bow, but you are tied down. Good.

In 1962 the first mate of the Doubloon climbed back on board half an hour after she did a 360 degree roll in a storm off Charleston, SC. He had been hanging under the fantail by his safety belt. Yeah. In the same era we trailed a line with a small float on the end as something to grab if you went MOB.

So, my cumulative thinking is that this new system has some utility, but it's marginal, and I can readily design greater safety than it supplies with ordinary components like safety belts and jacklines.

I go with that. Modern life jackets are such that you forget you're wearing one. We don't leave harbour until we have ours on.

Likewise, from dusk to dawn we don't leave the companionway without being clipped on - or if it's rough weather. The trick is to ensure the jack-lines and tethers keep you from going over.. Surprising how few knots it takes to drown you when being hauled alongside the hull, or behind the boat.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by waterman46

The video said nothing about the trigger mechanism other than I assume the little black device was a remote trigger. Hope that trigger will work after immersion in salt water but I doubt the range is sufficient. It would take a few seconds, or longer for a man overboard to trigger it.

I like the quick deployment but does it use a floating line? The traditional MOB tethered device (Lifesling) requires digging it out of a bag and thowing it overboard, and the polypro line is good for floating but does not run out freely at first.

Stopping the boat with a big drogue is a great idea - I had not thought of that.

The video mentions that user device is splash proof. As it's supposed to trigger immediately, it would not need to be submersible for any length of time (essentially making it a once-off trigger item).

The main unit somehow seems to detect if the sensor is lower than the unit, at least that's what the video shows. Would be interesting to know how he managed to do that? The issue then is avoiding false positives, if the boat is in heavy weather and someone works on the foredeck, the hand unit might also be lower than the sensor at the life ring.

My take on a MOB device (on top of avoiding falling in in the first place) would be as simple as using an existing water-proof Bluetooth (BT) device, could even be a smart watch, and having the on-board unit check for the BT signal regularly. If the signal goes away, the user has left the boat (somehow, maybe he walked off on the pier). This could either trigger an alarm for the rest of the crew or change the autopilot to turn the wheel hard-over, also, for a power boat, stop the engine via a kill switch.
If the user just left the boat to drop off the rubbish or visit the pub, the system could instead arm the boat against intruders.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by pushstudios

I read somewhere that trailing a line for solo sailors is the the least that should done. One person found a way to attach it to a quick release on their windvane - when the line was pulled, it disengaged the auto steering, so the boat would eventually come into the wind and one would have at least a chance of swimming back to the boat.

Does anyone see any potential downsides to this approach? At 5 knots, how long a line would you need to drag to give yourself 10 - 20 seconds to catch it? Is that time frame reasonable? It's something I would want to practice. . .

Watch the video in post 4. Then try hauling yourself back to the a moving boat. Assume the weather is bad and the boat is really moving. Try 5 knots from 200 feet back, using a floating water ski line.


No one who has tried it ever posts this advise. Guess why.

[parachute]

To stop MoB I fitted a U bolt in the cockpit to clip a tether to, thick nylon tape tied to the cleats both sides of the boat. We had harness with one long tether and one short one. The short one was to go on my knees to reef the main, it stopped the risk of going overboard. I put the long tether around the mast to stop falling back. We always used tethers in bad weather and at night.

[Spot]

I liked the video of the one system that was a trailing line to the MOB, that when pulled triggered a drogue. As the drogue deployed it pulled the MOB back to the boat. It looked like a fun ride. I cannot remember enough else to find and link to it.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by Halifax Sailor

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/cit...ard/1547387741

Found this, I have no affiliation or financial interest but looking at it may be the answer to me single handing all the time. May help keeping the admiral a little less stressed.

There are two primary uses for the Life Ring: (1) when NOT attached to the boat it can provide immediate flotation for the MOB. (2) when attached to the boat it can be used during the last stage of recovery to bring the MOB to the boat. This is why our Life Ring is clipped to the tag line so that it can be removed and tossed overboard for flotation OR left attached to assist in recovery.

In response to #1, dropping the ring buoy automatically is a good concept, especially when single handing or if the person on watch becomes the MOB.

For any other response associated with a ring buoy the concept is useless.

Reportedly the device is good for vessels up to 55'. That would indicate if you're all the way at the bow and the ring buoy is all the way aft you can be at least 50' away from the unit without it deploying. If you fall off the boat, it would then seem you would need to be at least 50' behind the boat before the ring buoy is released. A boat travels about 1.7'/sec for every knot of boat speed. At 6 knots the boat would have gone 50 feet in just under 5 seconds. At that speed, by the time the ring buoy hits the water and 100' of safety line is deployed the boat would already be farther than 100' away from the MOB. And that only took 10 seconds. Even assuming you responded immediately upon the MOB leaving the vessel you're not getting the boat stopped in less than 10 seconds.

If this concept were directed toward the auto-deployment of a Man Overboard Module or something similar it would be far more effective and perhaps is something worth pursuing.

Lastly, Ring Buoys, MOM's, PFD's, PLB's et al MOB devices are predicated on the fact that people do fall off boats. Admittedly it is rare, with prevention being the #1 reason it doesn't occur more often, however it does happen.

I once sailed, briefly, with a captain who when asked what his MOB procedure was replied "No one is going to fall off my boat". We parted ways at the very first land-fall.

As captain I am responsible for the safety of everyone on board, including myself. To assume that no one will ever fall off 'your' boat, I guess because you're Master Captain of the Universe, is IMO a dereliction of duty.

[boatman61]

For solo sailors it may be useful if a remotely deployed liferaft could be set up.. this ring bouy however is realistically a waste of space..
Man goes overboard its gonna take more than 5 seconds to surface and Orient himself, and have you tried swimming in foulies and LJ..
But it should sell well for those needing the 'feel good' factor.