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Old 01-12-2018, 23:10   #31
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
If I recall correctly, their raft broke up over time and they only survived because they had a fi-glass dinghy tethered to the raft.
No, they had an inflatable dinghy that they had time to inflate and take extra gear. They lost it after only a few days during a storm. They wouldnít have lasted long without the lifefraftís cover to keep off the sun and collect rainwater.

The liferaft did start to disintegrate, and it was a wreck when it was found (it was lifted on to the fishing boat and taken back to shore). But it did the job for almost four months, even given the technology of liferafts of the early 70s. I understand many liferaft companies wanted to see it afterwards to learn from it.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:34   #32
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

The book I had in mind is called "Survive the Savage Sea":
In June 1972, the 43-foot schooner Lucette was attacked by killer whales and sank in 60 seconds. What happened next is almost incredible. In an inflatable rubber raft, with a 9 foot fiberglass dinghy to tow it, Dougal Robertson and his family were miles from any shipping lanes. They had emergency rations for only three days and no maps, compass, or instruments of any kind. After their raft sank under them, they crammed themselves into their tiny dinghy.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:14   #33
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

Matt, after wading though 3 pages of this thread, let's recap.

There is no regulation for your boat to be fitted with a life raft.

A four man liferaft will be of very limited value to you (as a single hander) if deployed in storm plus conditions.

It will be of immense value should you have major fire or some other unforeseen rapid sinking events in calmer conditions.

Your call
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:09   #34
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Thanks Jim, much appreciated, that's really got me thinking again.
From MySailing.com.au:
[I]"...For example, Victoria requires a life raft, or dingy, for 12 metre and upward recreational vessels operating more than two nautical miles from shore. South Australia requires life rafts for 15 metre and larger vessels that are operating more than 10 nautical miles offshore.
Hard to see how this can ever be enforced in South Australia as in Australia states only have powers to five nautical miles from the coastline. Past there it is the Federal Government that has control.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:26   #35
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Matt, after wading though 3 pages of this thread, let's recap.

There is no regulation for your boat to be fitted with a life raft.

A four man liferaft will be of very limited value to you (as a single hander) if deployed in storm plus conditions.

It will be of immense value should you have major fire or some other unforeseen rapid sinking events in calmer conditions.

Your call

Actually, thatís a bloody good summary.

Looking at the Swanson 42 through admittedly rose-coloured glasses, Iíd say sheís at far more threat from unforeseen events than a storm. Encapsulated keel, nearly two INCHES of fibreglass below the waterline, canoe stern and massive freeboard. Sheíll hove-to with NO sails up at all. No weird rudder arrangement to sheer off and take half the boat with her.

A storm that is a threat to her is gonna be a real bastard to ANY life raft.

So yeah, fire would have to be the main concern. (6 extinguishers at last count).

Iíve cut the number of hull penetrations to just five below the waterline and each has a new skin fitting combined with perfect access. New PSS seal with easy access and a synthetic cloth and ties set nearby to block the shaft should the seal bellows fail (as they can).
Two new electric bilge pumps plus one double action manual pump. Also new. Portable electric crash pump ready to go.

I feel like a life raft is as much for any crew whoíd like to join me on one of the more interesting passages I chose. Donít really want to be in a situation where we have to draw straws.

Still keen to get the Great Circle guys to give me their opinion.

But good to hear that, whatever I choose, I am unlikely to regret that choice as a result of mindless bureaucracy later on.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:29   #36
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Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
Hard to see how this can ever be enforced in South Australia as in Australia states only have powers to five nautical miles from the coastline. Past there it is the Federal Government that has control.

I think youíll find this stuff is related to the state the vessel is registered to. A vessel passing through is fine provided they donít stay too long, 90 days rings a bell from when I bought my Victorian registered boat to South Australia back in 2013.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:38   #37
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

^^ the point being that SA can only prosecute within 5 nm of the coast yet their regs say the vessel (15+ m) only needs the liferaft when 10 nm offshore. Weird!

EDIT: assuming CFS post #34 is correct.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:13   #38
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Coming from the UK, I personally think the list of requirements is an entirely reasonable one, particularly if youíre taking others. Thereís an argument that a solo sailor should be able to do as he wishes, I guess.

Nothing wrong with argument so long as when you get in trouble you don't expect the taxpayers of a foreign country to come looking for you and to rescue you.


Preamble from NZ safety regulations for Cat 1

Passage or races of long distances and well offshore, where yachts must be completely self-sufficient for extended periods of time, capable of withstanding storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies without the expectation of outside assistance.



Fair enough when one examines the NZ Maritime Search and Rescue area, after all the NZ taxpayer will be funding any search and rescue


One accepts that Inspections and Compliance cost ( and it certainly is not petty cash), and this appears to be the major objections to owners of Foreign Flagged vessels wanting exemption from inspection, and in the case of many Kiwi owners also whose DIY shipwright skills fall short of acceptable standards.


For the solo sailor, it is only the individual's life that is at stake, for the family sailor, live as a family, sail as a family, but hopefully don't die as a family; however, for someone carrying crew whether paid or unpaid, the owner has a responsibility for the crew's safety, and perhaps that should carry an enforceable international liability, similar to that of an employer for the safety of employees in the workplace.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:17   #39
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Regarding the whole Winston Churchill scenario...

I have read countless reports on that ill fated race. At one stage I had copies of the transcripts of the police interviews of various survivors, though I canít find the backup that contains them at the moment . I was particularly interested in the race analysis because a Swanson 42 went down off Eden so I was anxious to learn as much as I could.
This Wiki article gives a pretty good summary. More importantly the link at the bottom provides online access to the coroner's report and all the police interviews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_S...art_Yacht_Race

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Old 02-12-2018, 14:14   #40
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Nothing wrong with argument so long as when you get in trouble you don't expect the taxpayers of a foreign country to come looking for you and to rescue you.
So, if the boat has no liferaft and no EPIRB then there's no issue - there's nothing to rescue. Same argument is used in NZ about bikes and compulsory crash-helmets - without the helmet the medical costs are reduced - there's only the burial costs. At sea we don't even have burial costs. But nanny states like everyone to conform, no risk-taking allowed, stay home or go shopping, god bless 'em.

And don't get too upset about the cost of NZ maritime surveillance - they spend their days practicing anyway so may as well have a real mission instead of a fake one.
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Old 03-12-2018, 00:30   #41
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Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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This Wiki article gives a pretty good summary. More importantly the link at the bottom provides online access to the coroner's report and all the police interviews.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_S...art_Yacht_Race



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Thanks mate, I was getting nowhere looking for those.

I am in awe of your Google-powers! And your powers of observation.
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Old 03-12-2018, 00:42   #42
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

Update following discussion with Great Circle life rafts today.

The conversation was greatly assisted by the fact that the gentleman I spoke to used to own exactly the same sort of boat I have and had sailed it many, many more miles than I have. (Yet).

He too felt that I would be unlikely to be abandoning my boat in favour of the life raft simply because of rough weather. Itís going to be something really unexpected if it ever happens.

He agreed that with one person in it, a four person raft might flip if the wind got under it but argues that this was a risk even with four people on board of the conditions were that bad. He advocated staying in the middle of the raft to minimise this risk.

We discussed the Winston Churchill life raft incident and he noted that SOME older life rafts were dependent on their floors to maintain their shape. He stated that their rafts were not dependent on the floor and felt that they were not unique in making this claim.

Overall I suppose I didnít learn much except that I should stay in the middle of the raft if on my own and that if it flips the consequences are unlikely to be all that bad.

He claimed to know of no two-man rafts that had a roof so on balance Iíll go for the four person, at least knowing that if I have passengers there will be no awkward ďno, you go...Ē moments. At least if I have no more than three passengers...
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:05   #43
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

Just looked at the GC website.... clicked on the 'service' dropdown.... seems they have a service facility in Arica...how cool is that!
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:10   #44
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

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Just looked at the GC website.... clicked on the 'service' dropdown.... seems they have a service facility in Arica...how cool is that!
Well I'd have to be lost to be needing that facility... but I can see how you'd be interested.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:24   #45
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Re: Life raft regulations, Australia, New Zealand, South Pacific.

I see they also have a service agent near Novaya Zemlya.... I suspect their map just shows a selection of random dots..... bit of a worry.... what else have they just made up....?

However I am quite sure their rafts are very very good.....
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