Life Jackets

[Panama Red]

As a former class V kayaker/raft guide, I wore a life jacket all day long. Whitewater life jackets allowed me to be mobile/agile and in cold rainy weather it helps keep the body core warm. Makes swimming in rapids so much easier.

Life jackets were also useful in raft MOB in the rapids. Just reach down and haul life-jacket and person in. Would not work so well with a high freeboard. Some whitewater life jackets come with a built in quick release harness.

Another benefit for the whitewater life jacket is torso protection. Mine is an upper body vest, that protects against rocks, flying ropes, booms etc. Also a great cushion when needed.

As far as staying warm in wet cold conditions:
Dry suit works well, but if it has a hole in it, once it fills with water, down you go!
I prefer polypropylene undergarments, they come in various weights, they are warm when wet, feel like pajamas. Over the polypro I would wear a spray jacket/trousers, light water repellent fabric. Some people use polypropylene under their dry suits.

I have kayaked in sub freezing temps and still was comfortably warm but wet.

[j.lev]

While we are on this subject, does anyone have a recommendation for the best pfd for a nine year old? The one I have for my daughter is bulky, so she complains. I would never sacrifice safety for comfort, so I am just trying to find out if there is a good safe and comfortable pfd for my daughter. I want her to love boating as much as I do, or at least look forward to coming out with me more often.

Thanks

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by j.lev

While we are on this subject, does anyone have a recommendation for the best pfd for a nine year old? The one I have for my daughter is bulky, so she complains. I would never sacrifice safety for comfort, so I am just trying to find out if there is a good safe and comfortable pfd for my daughter. I want her to love boating as much as I do, or at least look forward to coming out with me more often.

Thanks

Go to:

Kid's, Junior and Infant Life Jackets & PFD's | APS

Recommend a type III vest, plenty to choose from at above site.

[alanrothenbush]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The latest MOB thread got me thinking how bad it is that we don't really wear life jackets except in bad weather.

I'll be interested to know what others do.

I don't leave the dock unless everyone on board is wearing a PFD and has their crotch straps done up. I treat PFDs like seat belts; there is no thinking about it and no discussion.

I've had one complaint in 10 years of day sails with one and all, and he got to stay ashore.


As it happens, I moved my boat just last Thursday from one slip to another in the same marina on a near windless day. I had my PFD on and crotch straps done up.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by alanrothenbush

I don't leave the dock unless everyone on board is wearing a PFD and has their crotch straps done up. I treat PFDs like seat belts; there is no thinking about it and no discussion.

I've had one complaint in 10 years of day sails with one and all, and he got to stay ashore.


As it happens, I moved my boat just last Thursday from one slip to another in the same marina on a near windless day. I had my PFD on and crotch straps done up.

Your policy seems a little extreme, but it’s your boat so you can dictate the rules as you see fit.

[alanrothenbush]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your policy seems a little extreme, but it’s your boat so you can dictate the rules as you see fit.

To me, extreme would be to hand them a tether and have them clipped on at all times.

Modern PFDs are pretty small, pretty comfortable and not much of an inconvenience.

What it really comes down to is that I'm just big on good habits. Do the right thing, and do it every single time, without fail.

I do up my seat belt and give it a little tug, every time. I check the mirrors in my truck before pulling out of the driveway, even though I'm the only one who drives it, every time. I check the rigging "up top" every year, and check the rigging at deck level before every cruise. (I actually found a clevis pin missing its cotter pin once .. no idea how .. which makes this mundane task easier to justify)

I may be a bit overboard, if you pardon the pun, but every newcomer gets a safety lesson, even for a "two hour cruise". Everyone is shown how to start the engine and use the throttle, how to drop sails, how to properly operate the radios (laminated instruction charts close by), where the first aid gear is, what to do in an MOB situation, where the MOB gear and instructions are stored, when and how to drop anchor and so forth. Everyone is given a chance to steer the moment we're out of the marina.

I figure the three biggest dangers to my passengers are me falling down from a stroke or heart attack, me falling overboard and one of them falling overboard.

So I do my best to plan for these possibilities; I just could not live with myself if something bad happened as a result of my negligence, something I could have prepared for and possibly prevented.

[Kenomac]

Alan,

One thing I neglected to consider in my post above, is the type of boat you might have. If I was operating a small, less than 25ft powerboat capable of quick acceleration, a relatively small daysailer that had a tendency to heel over quickly in a breeze, or a larger high speed powerboat, I would also adhere to your strict lifejacket rules. Our Hunter 450 tended to be rather tender and would heel over quickly with wind gusts, so we tended to wear lifejackets most of the time, and always when guests were aboard.

So after reconsidering my post #112, I’m more in agreement with you than not; we had basically the same policies as you in place when we owned a Hunter 450 located in Southern California.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Kenomac, did you order the Ocean Safety MOB1 AIS beacon to go with your new life jackets? It is fantastic how they integrate with the jacket, and amazing how small they are. This will save your bacon if you go over in any kind of weather, or at night.

These are great. Not bulky even in a lower rated life jacket.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by alanrothenbush

I don't leave the dock unless everyone on board is wearing a PFD and has their crotch straps done up. I treat PFDs like seat belts; there is no thinking about it and no discussion.

No vlog there

[MartinR]

Hybrid life jackets may give the best of both worlds. Like these:

https://www.baltic.se/en/produkter/hybrid/hybrid-220/

But this is Baltic, and they tend to make rather uncomfortable inflatable life jackets......... . Haven't tested this, but may be a good alternative to SOLAS life jackets.

[belizesailor]

I just inflate tested my old inflatable PFD, it pre-dates the USCG Type V standard!, with a rusted C02 cartridge. Still works fine. The CO2 cart was bad enough I decided it was time to replace. I do have newer ones aboard too.

My most dramatic premature inflation story: I had just come off watch on a run from Tortola to Annapolis, ages ago. Snotty weather, cold, wet, really looking forward to a cup of coffee. Went below and poured a cup. Just lifting to my lips and...PFFFT!...the PFD inflated dramtically and slung my coffee all over the place...not happy.

The older mechanisms were more prone to do this. I think later mechanisms had better protection of the tablet from incidental water and maybe they changed the tablet formulation a little. Ive never had a newer one go off on me.

[alanrothenbush]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Question, and I don’t mean to be smart or sarcastic in presenting this question:

Well, it feels a LITTLE bit sarcastic, but that's OK; we're all friends here.

The answer is of course "no" BUT a dock is not going to toss you overboard and sail away. Similarly, on a big ship, be it ferry or cruise ship, it's highly unlikely that anything will happen quickly; there will be time to get to a life jacket.

But on a small boat, that's just not the case, and I've got a 28' sailboat.

Let me tell you a story.

I was motoring along one fine summer day. It was a bit of a crowded waterway, with boats travelling in all directions, but all were well behaved. So while attention was required, no collisions seemed imminent.

Then out of the blue, some moron in his 70' I'm rich power boat came roaring past at 30 knots or better less than 10' off my beam and cut RIGHT in front of me, my bow narrowly missing his swim grid. The huge wake and enormous trough he created had my boat literally FALL off the water and thump down again, like some 3 ton windsurfer jumping the waves, accompanied by a broach that almost put the mast in the water.

I was very nearly tossed overboard, my overly complex bimini structure being all that kept me dry. Someone sitting on the coaming WOULD have gone overboard.

Once recovered, I watched this clown weave in and out of the slow moving boats like some slalom skier going around the buoys. It would have been idiotic on a jet ski, but in a boat so big it could rightly be called a SHIP ...

And that was while motoring. As you point out, when wind is involved, the decision tree changes to even more conservative choices.


I've gone swimming as a result of a broach, and I didn't like it. And that was mid Pacific, in pretty warm water. Around here, the water is cold at the best of times and freakin' cold the rest of the time; swimming for more than few minutes is unlikely.


I take your point about installing paranoia, but it's all in the presentation.

"Now, everyone does up their seatbelt when they get into a car, right? You're not going to crash, but you do up your belt anyway, just in case, right? Well, let me tell you about the small boat equivalent of a seatbelt."

I find some of my passengers are dragged along by their significant others, not necessarily wanting to be there in the first place and more than a little bit nervous.

The short safety lecture seems to allay whatever fears they may have and also ups their interest. And getting them involved often goes a long way towards preventing "seasickness" issues from developing.


Anyway, your original post asked what do others do, and this was my answer; "better safe than sorry" (that being about the only thing I remember from my Boy Scout days).


Nice "chatting" with you.


Alan

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would tend to agree with you about the 275N jackets, having been using them for the last 10 years.


I will continue to wear my trusty Seago 275N in very bad weather, however. You might really want the extra buoyancy if you are wearing a ton of cold weather gear.


Kenomac, did you order the Ocean Safety MOB1 AIS beacon to go with your new life jackets? It is fantastic how they integrate with the jacket, and amazing how small they are. This will save your bacon if you go over in any kind of weather, or at night.

I just took the plunge and purchased two Spinlock Deckvest Vito Jackets with Ocean Signal MOB1 integrated along with a Spinlock Chest Pack. I figure with the ACR PLB ResQLink+ Located in the Chest Pack... I’ve done the best I can. In addition, I’ll likely be wearing an Ocean Rodeo Ignite drysuit when things get rough. Yikes, that’s a lot of stuff!

An online retail store made the purchase available on ebay for $610 each or $1220 for the pair. Here’s the link if anyone else is interested:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333148351316

[Exile]

Reading with interest. To follow up from another thread a couple of years back now, is anyone making a MOB beacon/device which integrates AIS and GPS into a single unit?

[MartinR]

AIS Mob 1 has AIS, GPS, VHF DSC. Very small and lightweight.