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Old 23-07-2018, 09:27   #16
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

You could have just asked him who he was an what he was doing? I can understand being annoyed that he woke you up and may have intended to trespass. But a man is swimming shorts in the water below you is hardly a threat, at worst a shove with a boat hook point will sort him out. Do a proper self defense course if this really worried you, boosts confidence and reduces stress.


To Svquintana. You sound like you know what you are talking about but I am not sure you can arrest someone for civil trespass in Canada? I think they have to refuse to leave, cause damage or display threatening behavior (which includes verbal threats or abuse) before it becomes an arrestable offense. Wrongful arrest put you in significant jeopardy from the criminal code but I may be wrong on this.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:05   #17
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I think a "near miss" shot would have done wonders for the swimmers education.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:18   #18
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I think you did the right thing
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:28   #19
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I think your suspicions are well founded. If you are out for a swim and get tired, there are lots of things to grab in an anchorage for a rest. Why try to board a boat without acknowledging yourself? This has thief written all over it in my opinion.
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:28   #20
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Yes you can. You can hit him over the head with it!
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:30   #21
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Screw the gun I have a tactical flashlight that will blind you from 3-4 m away and weights about 2 kg and is designed as a club.....night intruders are first blinded then clubbed if need be......

Or as pointed out above, ask them what the hell they are doing, the polite thing to do in Canada, eh........
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Old 23-07-2018, 10:38   #22
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I was once is a situation where I though I was being boarded by pirates but it turned out to be completely benign.


We were in Indonesia, far off the beaten path when a very rough fishing boat came along side. Many hands grabbed our toe rail. My initial thought was we were about to be boarded and I called for my crew to join me on deck.

After a few seconds someone on the fishing boat ran his hand over the hull and said: "oooooo plastic". Then everyone looked at the boat, smiled waved and pushed off. Their boat never touched my hull.

That same day a young guy in a dugout canoe sat off the stern of the boat and just starred. After a while we signaled him to come aboard. We showed him the boat and gave him a glass of cold water. We then speculated if ever had cold water before.

We were in a very remote area and the local people had never seen a cruising sailboat before.


Moral of the story: Don't jump to conclusions.
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Old 23-07-2018, 11:29   #23
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Your personal safety and the safety of those on board, is number one, but you have to use your good sense as to any action according to the situation and personal danger.

As far as I am concerned , you did well, and that warfrat was up to no good. Who knows what the possible outcome could have been.

Only, one pirate story in my long years of sailing world wide.

Long ago....delivering a new Ericson sailing vessel from Cabo San Lucas, Mexico to Los Angeles Harbor. I was the delivery skipper after the owner and full crew raced from L.A to Cabo. On board was Erica, and three fellahs from the sailing club where I worked. ( They were there for fun and sailing, not as paid crew ) .

About four days after leaving Cabo, during a rain squall , we entered Turtle Bay, Baha, Calif, Mexico, for fresh water and fuel, and a day of rest .

We had just anchored in Turtle Bay, the three guys took the dink, and went off to find a bar. Erica stayed on board with me. She was squaring the boat away for the night, and Ii was catching up on the log with our arrival time and location.

I heard a THUD on the starboard quarter, Ah, it was the three louts returning, and they could not find a bar. WRONG.

I looked out the the port light, and saw a bearded, sarape wearing, dirty, unkempt man grabbing on to the life line to board our vessel. He came to steal , and theive , and who knows what else.

I grabbed the very pistol. a huge bore , all metal, flare gun. I walked over to the companion way hatch that was totally open,

This brigand was now starting to climb over the life line on the starboard quarter. I leveled the very pistol at his chest, and cocked the hammer.

He stopped dead in his movement in his boarding attempt.

" What do you want ? "

His eyes are huge, and he was totally surprised. ( He gave no hailing call to board )

He is now halfway suspended in his boarding attempt, and clinging to the life line. The dink painter is in his hand to tie up to our boat.

WHAT DO YOU WANT !

" Ahhh, I was just coming over to see if you wanted to exchange dollars for pesos. "

( same BS as ' I was just swimming by. )'

He is looking at the size of the barrel of the metal flare gun. And stammering some other crap.

" Bull ****.... you saw the dinghy leaving for shore, with three guys in it. You thought to boat was un- attended . You came to steal ."

" Are you on a boat here in the bay ? "

He points to a beat up , Cal 25.

I ask " Where are you from ? "

He says " Washington state "

With the weapon still pointed at his chest, cocked and my finger on the trigger....

"Get off this boat , Now ! And, if I see you again, I WILL KILL YOU ! "

He stepped back down into his dink and rowed back to his boat. Never saw him again.

Point being, we all need to stand our ground, but we also have to take into account what we are willing to do. He de escalated the situation by not continuing to board. I knew he was a low life thief, but, he left without any problem.

But, I will not let anyone put my vessel or my crew in danger of being robbed or attacked. Period, regardless of the rules of any state or country or dockside lawyers.

In all of the years, about 40 now, sailing in world wide cruising grounds, we never had a problem of a dangerous or threatening encounter, or thievery. Never. Until this one situation.

We also do not carry any fire arms on board. All I had , that was legal, was that old very pistol ( flare gun ). Actually, it looked like a hand held shotgun barrel .

Otherwise , it would have been me, with a metal winch handle that would have involved physical action.

All ended well, we feel the OP , handled the situation perfectly as far as we are concerned.

Good on ya, skipper.
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Old 23-07-2018, 12:18   #24
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Quote:
To Svquintana. You sound like you know what you are talking about but I am not sure you can arrest someone for civil trespass in Canada? I think they have to refuse to leave, cause damage or display threatening behavior (which includes verbal threats or abuse) before it becomes an arrestable offense. Wrongful arrest put you in significant jeopardy from the criminal code but I may be wrong on this.[/QUOTE]

That is correct, but if you are not in any danger, then you shouldn't be shooting him either. My suggestion was to be sure to initiate an arrest before shooting at the perpetrator. And if you're firing at him/her then you'd better feel threatened in a significant way.

My post was intended to give the "defender" a better standing in court, if the use of a firearm was necessary.

Generally: To arrest someone for trespassing, he/she must be on or within a property you own, or for which you are responsible, and he/she must know that they are not allowed on the property. So a sign must have been posted, or a fence erected, or they must have been asked to leave, and refused. Then you may initiate a citizen's arrest.

We, as citizens of Canada, have the right to arrest "anyone" committing an act listed in the criminal code, that includes police officers and officers of the court. Though it'll be a tough go if you attempt to arrest someone with a badge, you are within your rights if they've broken the law, and you've witnessed it happen.

Also note, if you're arresting someone with a badge, they're likely armed, so you'd better be too. Then there's likely going to be a world of trouble. It would be better, in that case, to document the offense with a video camera, and have "other police" come by later to affect an arrest. However, if the offense is endangering the life and/or limb of yourself or another person, then you should treat them as any other armed villain. If so, you'd better be sure of yourself, and the situation, and have witnesses, and/or video, because the legal system tends to favour the police.

Cheers, and thanks for your comments.
Paul.
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Old 23-07-2018, 12:21   #25
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

You really never mentioned if you really did have a gun on board, or if you just said that to scare him off.
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Old 23-07-2018, 12:49   #26
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

His last sentence says "the only gun aboard was a flare gun"

Cheers.
Paul.
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Old 23-07-2018, 14:23   #27
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Ooooops! Sorry missed it!
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Old 23-07-2018, 15:29   #28
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Reminds me of old cowboy movies - stranger walks up to the campfire late at night. Cowboy acts friendly and asks if stranger wants some coffee, but second cowboy is hiding in the bushes with a rifle just in case.
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Old 23-07-2018, 18:51   #29
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I also think you did the right thing. Asking for the gun, makes that person stop and think do they want to go forward or retreat. In reality we sleep in the hot weather with our front door open and I would like to hear from all that think you should have invited him up for tea and biscuits to sleep with their homes front door open. Funny that this form has a majority of participants who recommend every piece of safety equipment known to man before sailing but criticize the OP for worrying about his and his families personal safety when it comes to an uninvited guest.
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Old 23-07-2018, 19:07   #30
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I have great respect for self defense and the restraint to use a deadly weapon for defense.
That said- I have been boarded three times in my sailings. Once was a group of men in the south china sea- whom we shall suggest lacked organization. They arrived via boat and they left head first. We were under way at the time doing eleven knots.
The second and third times were both stateside. Both included drunks and both times individuals had police records.

I was taught never to point or threaten with an unloaded gun. I also suggest pulling a trigger has unexpected psychological effects. But in the modern world of regulations and lack of respect, I think any person intruding uninvited below decks without due introduction should be considered hostile.
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