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Old 04-08-2018, 04:38   #181
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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Originally Posted by atkinsoa View Post
[...]
Next morning I found out from the marina manager that I should have got out the cell phone and taken their picture. Also I should have phoned the Capitan de Peurto. They would have tried to catch these guys in the middle of the night. But being half asleep, all I did was talk to them and they left in a hurry.

Somehow I doubt they would have done anything had you called them in the middle of the night.

Unfortunately, we've read too many stories where even after a homocide the authorities in some areas of the world are rather sluggish to react, especially if the victim is some gringo passing through...
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Old 04-08-2018, 06:36   #182
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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It's hardly complacency if Mike has established his approach to such a situation. And yes, you don't need to put on rose-coloured glasses anywhere in the world. My apartment in Kingston, ON got broken into while I was on holidays, but that doesn't make it a generally unsafe area.
Not sure what your point is...? Mike stated a strong defense/preparation wasn't necessary as 90+% of the time, an uninvited perp boarding your boat @ 2am at that location is benign, as it's just some kid doing something stupid.

Safe/unsafe is a subjective call, obviously you were a victim, so was it safe for you?
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Old 04-08-2018, 06:56   #183
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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Not sure what your point is...? Mike stated a strong defense/preparation wasn't necessary as 90+% of the time, an uninvited perp boarding your boat @ 2am at that location is benign, as it's just some kid doing something stupid.

Safe/unsafe is a subjective call, obviously you were a victim, so was it safe for you?
What I said is that, based on actual direct knowledge of exactly this location (something you appear NOT to have), my assessment is that this ďperpĒ as you call him, was very likely some kid involved in a silly prank. I further stated some basic facts about levels of crime and violence in both Canada in general, and this area in particular. In this light, threatening to shoot this kid (as the OP did) is likely an over-reaction.

In other areas, perhaps where you live which is more violent based on the facts I found, the OPís reaction may be exactly right. But as with everything, location matters.

I further made it clear i was not criticizing the OPís reaction. I stated I donít know what I would have done in the same situation ó perhaps exactly the same. But this doesnít mean the reaction was the best response when the facts are examined in the bright light of day (and after having had a morning coffee ).
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:10   #184
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

The OP and mod have banned discussion of lethal weaponry.

wrt the post on the copper plate + electrics idea, may be sub-lethal but. . .

Be aware in most of the world "force proportionate to the threat" is a limitation on the "my home is my castle" defense.

Any automated system that can cause injury, including "just pain and suffering" will likely get you in big trouble, even jail time, in the event.

Even if you can "prove" the boarder had bad intent.

Many USians will say "ok so be it, protection first then I'll take my chances with the law, let the chips fall where they may".

Which is fine, as long as you inform yourself on the issue wrt local laws and practice, don't act in ignorance.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:28   #185
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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What I said is that, based on actual direct knowledge of exactly this location (something you appear NOT to have), my assessment is that this ďperpĒ as you call him, was very likely some kid involved in a silly prank. I further stated some basic facts about levels of crime and violence in both Canada in general, and this area in particular. In this light, threatening to shoot this kid (as the OP did) is likely an over-reaction.

In other areas, perhaps where you live which is more violent based on the facts I found, the OPís reaction may be exactly right. But as with everything, location matters.

I further made it clear i was not criticizing the OPís reaction. I stated I donít know what I would have done in the same situation ó perhaps exactly the same. But this doesnít mean the reaction was the best response when the facts are examined in the bright light of day (and after having had a morning coffee ).
You are playing with statistics to satisfy your belief system.

You are talking about the 98%, instead of how to prepare for the 2%.

You are also concluding that those that carry a gun on-board will pull the trigger in every situation. Please explain how a threat of 'get the gun' will scar that wayward youth. I guarantee he'll remember it.

So, to answer the OP, in the case of the 2%, how do you prepare?
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:38   #186
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Someone try to or boarding a boat at 2am is not performing an innocent prank.

To quote pretty much everyones' mother, "Nothing good happens after midnight."
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:57   #187
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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You are playing with statistics to satisfy your belief system.

You are talking about the 98%, instead of how to prepare for the 2%.

You are also concluding that those that carry a gun on-board will pull the trigger in every situation. Please explain how a threat of 'get the gun' will scar that wayward youth. I guarantee he'll remember it.

So, to answer the OP, in the case of the 2%, how do you prepare?


How am I "playing with statistics to satisfy [my] belief systemĒ? What a bizarre statement. Of course Iím talking about the vast majority (the 98% in your words). I donít live in fear. I quoted easily accessible FACTS about crime. And more importantly, presented direct knowledge of the area (again, something you do not have). It seems that you are obsessed with proving that everyone, everywhere, should be living in fear of the boogeyman. Iím sorry, but facts DO matter.

Where have I said anything close to "everyone who carries a gun will pull the trigger in every situation" WHERE? Iíve said no such thing. Try reading what I write, instead of what you believe is there based on your own ďbelief system."

Read Johnís post. Here, let me quote it for you:

"Be aware in most of the world "force proportionate to the threat" is a limitation on the "my home is my castle" defense.Ē

Threatening to shoot a kid for a stupid prank is disproportionate to the crime. In the bright light of day, most reasonable people would come to this conclusion, as would a judge or jury if it came it this.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:04   #188
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I don't want a 'fair fight'. I want to end it quickly and in my favor.

I do believe that is pretty much how a US General recently responded to a liberal media reporter when asked, 'about using so much force.

You jump onboard my boat at 2am, I dont want this event to escalate.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:23   #189
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Yes but in more civilised countries, you are not given that right.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:36   #190
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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How am I "playing with statistics to satisfy [my] belief systemĒ? What a bizarre statement. Of course Iím talking about the vast majority (the 98% in your words). I donít live in fear. I quoted easily accessible FACTS about crime. And more importantly, presented direct knowledge of the area (again, something you do not have). It seems that you are obsessed with proving that everyone, everywhere, should be living in fear of the boogeyman. Iím sorry, but facts DO matter.
And the fact is no place is 100% safe. The discussion is how to prepare for when it is not safe. An uninvited guest boarding a boat @ 2am is regarded by most as the start of an unsafe situation. If you don't want to confront 'the boogeyman', that's your choice, just don't deride those that have the courage to do so and discuss it.

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Where have I said anything close to "everyone who carries a gun will pull the trigger in every situation" WHERE? Iíve said no such thing. Try reading what I write, instead of what you believe is there based on your own ďbelief system."
The OP yelled 'Get the gun'. The OP never stated he was going to shoot the person, but yet you state:

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But the idea of shooting this idiot is over the top.
I'll go as far to state that if 98% of 2am boardings on my boat are benign, then 98% will swim away unharmed. The remaining 2% will probably be a different story.

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Read Johnís post. Here, let me quote it for you:

"Be aware in most of the world "force proportionate to the threat" is a limitation on the "my home is my castle" defense.Ē

Threatening to shoot a kid for a stupid prank is disproportionate to the crime. In the bright light of day, most reasonable people would come to this conclusion, as would a judge or jury if it came it this.
No, actually shooting him may be disproportionate.
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:40   #191
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Let's stop arguing along these lines.

Non lethal, non injury causing methods only,

as in how to implement, not moral / legal / ethical issues.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:25   #192
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Intruder in the Middle of the Night

Agreed John.

To me, the first step in my security is to make a rational risk assessment of the place I want to spend time in. There is a wealth of data easily available to anyone these days. Crime stats are a good first step. Even better is talking to people who actually cruise the area.

No place is 100% safe, but if that is your level of need then you'll never leave your locked safe-room. Life is a risk afterall.

From there I like bright lights and loud noises. A dog is a great alarm system, but are often too much of a pita. If I were to venture into more sketchy areas I like the idea of having metal locking grates for companionway and hatches.

Crime cruisers receive is mostly opportunistic, so don't give the criminals the opportunity. Tie up the easy shinny bits (outboards, dingy, on deck stuff) and take reasonable care with the cabin.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:54   #193
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

I would like to add this to what Mike O'Reilly said:

Most of us know how very difficult it is to retrieve a MOB even in flat water. We have discussed that extensively in this forum, and we've agreed that mechanical assistance is normally required. It is unlikely, therefore, that, if we follow Mike's advice and take "dangling bits" aboard before nightfall, an intruder should be able to heave himself aboard unassisted. Ergo, a fool coming alongside TrentePieds, even with her low freeboard aft, intending to pull a stunt like the one described by the OP would be exposed to a greater risk than I, being aboard, would.

In these waters with log booms ubiquitous, tools like the "pike pole" are ubiquitous also. I don't happen to have one aboard, but I am certain that one of those in the hands of a skipper would have enormous "bargaining power" vis-ŗ-vis a wannabe intruder splashing about alongside :-)


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Old 04-08-2018, 11:54   #194
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

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There is a wealth of data easily available to anyone these days. Crime stats are a good first step. Even better is talking to people who actually cruise the area.
Latter is very valuable, former not so much.

I've lived in places with **terrible** local-on-local crime, but the resident mafia-gov-leo kept such close tabs on their territories the foreign tourists and expats were never touched, as long as you didn't get into dicey lifestyle choices, compete with them or sleep with their women.
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Old 04-08-2018, 14:18   #195
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Re: Intruder in the Middle of the Night

^^^^^Furthermore, a discussion of crime statistics has been done to death here, and to no great usefulness if what you as a cruiser want to deal with is someone in the water, hanging onto a fender, in the wee hours of the night.

What's wrong with a deep, strong voice asking, "What do you think you're doing?" or even the gentle, "What's up?" The answer could tell you if it were even plausible or phony, and you could handle the situation from there. [It's hard to lie well when you are cold, exhausted, and hanging onto a fender for dear life. We don't know if that was the case or not. It is the tendency to imagine some bad intent, and to trust that fantasy that leads to escalating violence.]

So, besides not leaving stuff out at night (this pretty much means hoisting the dinghy every night, which is not something everyone wants to do), especially attractive stuff like dive gear; getting a motion sensor to alarm and flash lights (which we've seen, and are subject to electronics failure, don't always work as advertised and can awaken a whole anchorage of boats); companionway grilles, and the log pike above (that sounds really scary, TP).... is that the sum total of prevention measures we can come up with after 195 posts?

Gosh.

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