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Old 09-04-2018, 10:50   #256
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Oh, and don't try to run from a bear - you won't make it.
You don't have to outrun the bear. You only have to outrun the person you're with!
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:00   #257
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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You don't have to outrun the bear. You only have to outrun the person you're with!
Or your wife that has the gun.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:01   #258
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Forget about shotguns. For a Polar bear you want a rifle with heavier weight controlled expansion bullets. Shotgun pellets will just make them really mad, and slugs do not have sufficient penetration.
. . .
Well, 12 ga with magnum slugs is the preferred weapon among the Arctic guides and the natives, who have been hunting polar bears for thousands of years and who are still allowed to kill a certain number of them.

I do understand that the big game rifle is best of all, but we have only one of them.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:04   #259
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Or your wife that has the gun.
And that can be a real bear too!
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:44   #260
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Since it has been mentioned, attached is a photo of a sign from a facility on the 'North Slope' of Alaska where a friend manages security- which includes polar bear patrols.

Their standard issue is 12 ga shotgun with Brenneke slugs. [No other slugs or hollow-point anything will do. Neither buckshot or tasers will penetrate the thick fur of the polar, grizzly, or black bears we have here...]

As mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, we keep 2- 12 ga shotguns loaded with Brenneke slugs, and 2- 45-70 rifles onboard. One 45-70 is loaded with Buffalo Bore magnum ammo, the other is modified to optionally use a .457 magnum round. [4000+ ft-lbs at impact...]

These are tools to us; we play where some large bears also choose to live, so we have to be prepared while simultaneously hoping to never need... And like Dockhead, we also plan to travel to regions where such personal protection gear is mandated.

May the humor remain as just that, and may none of us ever have to fire a round in defense.

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Old 09-04-2018, 11:48   #261
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Since it has been mentioned, attached is a photo of a sign from a facility on the 'North Slope' of Alaska where a friend manages security- which includes polar bear patrols.

Their standard issue is 12 ga shotgun with Brenneke slugs. [No other slugs or hollow-point anything will do. Neither buckshot or tasers will penetrate the thick fur of the polar, grizzly, or black bears we have here...]

As mentioned in my earlier post in this thread, we keep 2- 12 ga shotguns loaded with Brenneke slugs, and 2- 45-70 rifles onboard. One 45-70 is loaded with Buffalo Bore magnum ammo, the other is modified to optionally use a .457 magnum round. [4000+ ft-lbs at impact...]

These are tools to us; we play where some large bears also choose to live, so we have to be prepared while simultaneously hoping to never need... And like Dockhead, we also plan to travel to regions where such personal protection gear is mandated.

May the humor remain as just that, and may none of us ever have to fire a round in defense.

Cheers! Bill
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:40   #262
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

after a very unpleasant encounter with a black bear while i was on an extended canoe trip in northern ontario when i was 15, i walked into a woolworth's the day i got home and plunked 2 and a half weeks pay on the counter for a garand. (oddly i make a lot more now than i did at 15 but somehow a nice garand is still 2 weeks pay...) In the fullness of time and through hard won experience i learned that 30-06 is marginal even for black bears. I could not recommend it for grizzly or polar bears. if you were far enough away that you were assured of getting enough 30-06 into him to stop him, you are also far enough away to GTFO which is your safest and least paperwork option.

i would agree with the consensus that you want a pump rem 870 or mossberg 590 with the longest mag you can get. no auto shotgun is really reliable when you are traipsing around in the cold bush. i have a 590 and it works even packed full of snow and grit. the 870 would be just as good. i agree with the advice on brennecke slugs and i agree on the idea that the last two slugs in the mag(the first two out) being a flash bang. for black and brown bears, my experience is that kind of noise makes them pause. i have no experience with polar bears save from looking out the otter's window.

my other recommendation is that no matter what you get practice using in crappy cold weather and numb fingers with cold snow dumped from your hood down your back. you are never gonna need it when things are going well. that's just how life is up north.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:47   #263
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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after a very unpleasant encounter with a black bear while i was on an extended canoe trip in northern ontario when i was 15, i walked into a woolworth's the day i got home and plunked 2 and a half weeks pay on the counter for a garand. (oddly i make a lot more now than i did at 15 but somehow a nice garand is still 2 weeks pay...) In the fullness of time and through hard won experience i learned that 30-06 is marginal even for black bears. I could not recommend it for grizzly or polar bears. if you were far enough away that you were assured of getting enough 30-06 into him to stop him, you are also far enough away to GTFO which is your safest and least paperwork option.

i would agree with the consensus that you want a pump rem 870 or mossberg 590 with the longest mag you can get. no auto shotgun is really reliable when you are traipsing around in the cold bush. i have a 590 and it works even packed full of snow and grit. the 870 would be just as good. i agree with the advice on brennecke slugs and i agree on the idea that the last two slugs in the mag(the first two out) being a flash bang. for black and brown bears, my experience is that kind of noise makes them pause. i have no experience with polar bears save from looking out the otter's window.

my other recommendation is that no matter what you get practice using in crappy cold weather and numb fingers with cold snow dumped from your hood down your back. you are never gonna need it when things are going well. that's just how life is up north.
Thanks for this.

We're going to do plenty of practice. I don't like the idea of killing animals (I'm a vegan) but for some odd reason I like guns and enjoy shooting, and have since childhood.

Concerning the bear banger "flash bangs" -- have you used them? What are they like to shoot? Do they have a time fuze so that they go off after a set distance?
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Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 09-04-2018, 13:36   #264
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

You are not hunting bears. Hunting involves manoeuvring for an ideal heart shot from a distance where there is a margin for many follow-up shots if needed. Many people do carry shotguns, but they are simply not a good choice. They are rarely fitted with precision sights. If you do go that route the Brenneke slugs offer the best chance.

If you are attacked by any bear it will be head on, fast and likely very close.

The only sure stop is is solid central nervous system hit - the brain or the spine. A heart shot bear can cover considerable distance and kill you.

I would suggest studying bear anatomy in 3D, and practice on targets that present the best aiming point from a head on view where the neck and shoulder bones meet the spine. Bears have a lot of stand up and hanging fur.

You will likely get one shot. If you practice you can cycle a bolt action very fast during recoil recovery possible affording a second shot.

If you do have to shoot a polar bear, do not stop shooting until it is dead. Large predatory animals can often appear to be "down", only to make a sudden it temporary recovery.
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Old 09-04-2018, 15:41   #265
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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You are not hunting bears. Hunting involves manoeuvring for an ideal heart shot from a distance where there is a margin for many follow-up shots if needed. Many people do carry shotguns, but they are simply not a good choice. They are rarely fitted with precision sights. If you do go that route the Brenneke slugs offer the best chance.

If you are attacked by any bear it will be head on, fast and likely very close.

The only sure stop is is solid central nervous system hit - the brain or the spine. A heart shot bear can cover considerable distance and kill you.

I would suggest studying bear anatomy in 3D, and practice on targets that present the best aiming point from a head on view where the neck and shoulder bones meet the spine. Bears have a lot of stand up and hanging fur.

You will likely get one shot. If you practice you can cycle a bolt action very fast during recoil recovery possible affording a second shot.

If you do have to shoot a polar bear, do not stop shooting until it is dead. Large predatory animals can often appear to be "down", only to make a sudden it temporary recovery.

Dock,

i haven't used the flashbangs in anger, but have for play/practice. timed fuse is a generous interpretation. they get a ways away from the barrel and then go bang. if you point it at something within 20 yards or so they bounce off that and then go bang. (this can be more exciting than you intended....) if the bear wasn't intent on you and just needed to be discouraged it could be a good choice.

in my experience bears more durable than other critters. i have gotten that perfect heart shot into a black bear and then had him charge 80 to 100 yards up the gravel slope i was on at me and take 4 more 30-06 (admittedly not into the heart) while he was doing it. the same quality shot on a moose would have dropped him where he stood, and black bears are a couple orders of magnitude less durable than brown or white ones. Killing brown bears is best done from far away and with bigger guns and only for good reason. I hope I never to need to kill a white one.

I do not disagree with anything that RPZ says above, but the reason i suggested pump shotgun with the brenneke slugs is because a relatively inexperienced user can get more rounds on target in a close quarters thing than you could with a bolt action rifle in the same amount of time. If you are far enough away to use the bolt action effectively, it's likely you have time to exercise other options, like not being there.
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Old 18-04-2018, 17:10   #266
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

I know. Get an RPG or rocket launcher.
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Old 18-04-2018, 17:33   #267
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Bill the sign in your post reminds me of one posted in Everglades National Park.

It seems the scientists there count alligator eggs each year and needed volunteers to help. The way it worked was they went out in teams of two. One guy would open up the gator nest and count eggs while the other guy fended off the momma gator with a broom stick. Just because you’re a scientist, doesn’t mean you’re smart.

One year they posted a sign asking for help. The last line was “Slow runners preferred”.
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Old 19-04-2018, 21:13   #268
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

You can tell if a bear has eaten a human if there's pepper spray in the poop. Also, I'd prefer you not be eaten because bears can get attached to easy human meals. Met a grizzly guide in Alaska. He carried a sawed off shotgun belt mounted and at 23 yrs old had withstood two grizzly charges which suggests only very close in shots matter and the last three of five cartridges are slugs. Also met the man who killed "old groaner". Old Groaner ate many a prospector/hunter/fisherman and was still doing it with most of his face gone and a good portion of his skull missing. And finally, the worst thing you want to meet is an old grizzly or polar bear with bad or no teeth. They're very ill tempered and very hungry. Most times I came across a bear in Alaska I'd set my rifle down and was fishing, so I heard the Desert Eagle pistol with homemade HOT rounds is an answer.
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Old 19-04-2018, 21:43   #269
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

20' away is about right if a grizzly or polar bear is charging.
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Old 19-04-2018, 22:03   #270
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Helicopter pilot I met in Alaska carried twin Uzi's so lots of bullets might work!
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