How to set up jacklines & tethers

[syPhilos]

We're about to sail for a short vacation, just a short hop from the Netherlands to the UK. We'll be sailing my BF's boat, a Victoire 1270 - a 42' blue water cruiser with a high freeboard.

I'm 5'5" and 132 pounds, my BF is 6'3" and 230 pounds - if he goes over, the only way he's getting out of the water is if he can climb back himself ...

His boat only has usable attachment points at the bow, so we'll have to run them to the cleats at the stern. So far, so good - except for the fact that, especially midship, this leaves plenty of room for the jacklines to be stretched all the way to the footrail (and thus making it too easy to fall over).

I'm thinking we need a line to go from SB to Port to keep the jackline in place - probably best fitted somewhere near the mast?

Our (single & elastic) tethers are the same size, and since I'm a lot smaller then him, I'm trying to work out how to set everything up so we're both safe and secure, and neither one of us can fall overboard while tethered (but we can both still get around).

My otherwise very safety conscious captain and I can't seem to agree on how to set up the jacklines and tethers to prevent both of us from over while tethered
He more or less accepts we could end up tethered next to the boat and the only 'fix' is simply to not fall overboard ...
I think it's worth putting some thought (and money ) into it and only use the tethers if they can actually prevent us from falling over ...

I'll attach some pics of the boat/deck:

Our tethers:



Deck (1):



Deck (2) - red 'circle' shows where jacklines are attached to bow:



Any input & ideas on the best setup are much appreciated

[Benz]

There are many old threads on this issue, and thus much disagreement, but since I get to chime in early here's my opinion: Traditional jacklines are insufficient, for the very reason you named: a big guy washed over will be very difficult to recover.
A safer method is to establish a whole set of strong clip-in points on centerline, and to move from one to the next, perhaps skipping some in quieter weather and just clipping in when arrived at the area where work must be done, or in serious weather, leap-frogging from one to the next with two leashes so that you're never fully unclipped.

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by Benz

There are many old threads on this issue, and thus much disagreement
//
A safer method is to establish a whole set of strong clip-in points on centerline

Haha, yes, I read some of them. But I'm trying to avoid the discussion here and am just looking for some input on how to set it up as best we can on this particular boat.

I'm hoping that I'll end up with a decent plan to convince my BF and end our endless discussions as well

The set of clip-in points is something to think about, and we might be able to do that next year when we're redoing the teak deck ... but for now, the jacklines are what we have to work with.

[Kenomac]

Run a two part system. Run two lines from the mast forward to your bow attachment point, and your aft lines from the stern to the mast keeping them as inboard as possible, inside the shrouds.

[Suijin]

I would suggest also putting hand holds on the side of the dodger. Yes, you want to be able to clip in *before* you leave the cockpit but having nothing but the life line to hold onto as you make your way around the dodger puts you at risk at a dangerous point.

You can buy them just like these:

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Run a two part system.

I'm a little embarrassed we didn't think of that ...
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Suijin

I would suggest also putting hand holds on the side of the dodger.

Yeah, my BF said he wanted hand holds on the dodger too; think he's making them this winter.

[Pete7]

Are the harness lines long enough to leave attached to the jack lines mounted on the coach roof with the harness end loose in the cockpit so you clip on before leaving the cockpit to get past the spray hood? which is always a tricky bit. Use separate lines for clipping on in the cockpit.

Pete

[estarzinger]

Let's take this in sections:



Red square - stepping over the coaming and a step or two forward. That is a particularly vulnerable point. Quite a few MOB's happen there if the boat lurches while you are on one foot stepping over. And pretty much no workable jackline tether system will absolutely keep you on board there as you are right on the edge of the boat. So, in this area #1 work on stable movement - keep your center of gravity low, place your feet carefully, move carefully. #2 hand grips along back/top edge of dodger and on side of dodger. #3 if the dodger framing is strong enough, you can set up a very very short tether system along its upper side edges, and use a very very short tether (sized just enough to allow you to move in a crouched position along there and no longer).

Orange square - you have some decent looking handgrips there. #1 Double check that the teak in the grips had not rotted/weakened (have your BF give them an all mighty hard jerk - tell him to TRY to break them - tell him you might have a very special treat for him if he does manage to break them ) #2 Then use them - always always have a firm grip with one hand there. In fact, really, when you move on the boat, you should always have a death grip with one hand on something - it is a design flaw if there are spaces where that is not possible. #3 here you can set up a jack line inboard somewhat - there would be a debate about where exactly, from possibly one along the centerline to the mast, to along the cabin house top edge to that foredeck fitting - both would be way better than the traditional side deck jackline. I would pick whatever layout you feel you are most likely to actually use - no point in setting something up if it is not convenient and after a day or two you stop using it. This area is typically NOT a high risk area - you have hand grips and you can focus on really stable walking position or even crawl if you feel unstable.

Green square - another high risk area - you are often working with one or both hands and if the boat lurches you may not have anything to grab. So #1 kneel or sit when you are working if you feel AT ALL unstable. #2 you need specific clip points at the mast and a short tether which just allows you to do what work needs to be done and no longer. These clip points can be dyneema loops around the mast or threaded into strong mast base hardware (those are real easy and inexpensive to add); or a bit more work, dedicated payeyes (perhaps again with dyneema loops on them to avoid tether clip pinch) to clip to. #3 There is a school of thought promolgated by a couple very experienced offshore people (the Neils and Pardey's) that you should have a line run from say the aft pushpit - to the shrouds secured there at upper chest level, and then back down to the bow pulpit; which gives you something to grip high enough (above trip level) it could hold you on deck - I'v never used that system and can't comment on its effectiveness but might be working rigging up and trying out (its easy and cheap to rig up) if after all this discussion you still feel then need for a little more.

Blue square - usually a medium risk area. Question - do you need to open that hatch at sea? Do you stow sails or needed sailing gear down there? Or is it essential for ventilation? If not the jackline should really run on the center line over that hatch to the mast. If you do need that hatch then run jacklines just left and right of it - looks like they might run right top the dodger corners which would line up with the oragnge square need. That hatch surface can be very slippery when wet - I would put some non-slip tape or paint in stripes on it. There are no handgrips up here, which is unfortunate. Do you have an inner stay which sets up in there? I know it makes tacking more difficult, but if you have one I would set it up when going offshore at it gives you a hand grip in the middle of that big empty area (and you dont tack all that often offshore). Do you use a pole? That is one of the big risks on the foredeck - either being hit by it, or it swinging and getting you off balance. There are some really nice and sound procedures for handling a pole shorthanded which absolutely minimize this - which if you use a pole we should discuss (perhaps separate topic).

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Let's take this in sections:



Attachment 175512



.

As always, my favorite CF member delivers!

Matt

[syPhilos]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Let's take this in sections:

Thank you so much!

We'll go through your post step by step later tonight together

[ArmyDaveNY]

Since you expressed a very valid concern about the ability of your BF to get back on the boat if he ever goes over, you may wish to shorten the tether so that he can't go over. It does limit mobility a bit but it might be worth it.

[barnakiel]

I run our deck lines (the ones to clip in) in my own mickey mouse way.


And I do think this way is 'safer' than some alternatives.


:


I use tubular webbing, stitched.


I run one end of the webbing from the cockpit STBD to the mast, there CROSS IT over (lead the webbing to PORT) go ahead TIE to the ring on the foredeck. Then come back to the mast CROSS IT over to PORT, then go to the cockpit and tie the end there.


I can draw this if you want a visual aid.


In other words, my decklines are divided into a cockpit to the mast pieces (which run diagonal) and mast to foredeck pieces (which run along the centerline).


There is no freaking way you can go past the mast without re-clipping at the mast. There is also no freaking way you go overboard with this set up. I think.


We have twin (one short one long) leashes but I think it is safer and faster to leave one leash clipped into the foredeck section. I find it easier and safer to clip the hook on my body which is always close rather than to reach out to a deckline that can be much harder to reach on a slanted and tossed deck.


Cheers,
b.

[sheldon957]

I only have a small amount of sailing time, so please don't flame me too badly.

I've always thought there was an answer that I have never seen written about.

Having the short tethers should work to keep you on onboard if a short stiff jackline or attach point is used. But these may not always be practical. If your tether allowed you to go over the edge, or worse into the water, it is just about impossible to overcome the drag & weight.

How about an additional safety halyard always attached like is used for going up the mast. That way she could always winch him back on board, or he could winch her if she went over. Just have it run near the cockpit, attach it onto the harness along with the safety line, and you are good to go.

[Hoodsail]

To mimic the 2 part approach with just 2 jack lines; how about crossing your jack lines just aft of your mast. So one ine runs from bow cleat aft then port side of mast then to starboard cleat to outboard of dodger then ....Could result in unreasonable chafing at your dodger, but its worth a quick look. have a good trip.

[roverhi]

It's better to stay on board but worse to go overboard without an attachment to the boat. It may be hard to haul someone aboard who is in the water but the problem is very sadly solved if the person can't be found. Seems many of the unclipped overboards occur in the cockpit or exiting it to go forward. You really need a clip on point that can be used before exiting the cabin. I've had a padeye on the bridge deck that I clip to while on the ladder to climb out. It allows me to move around the cockpit always secured. Have jack lines that run from bow to stern that I can clip on to in the cockpit and before leaving the cockpit. In addition have clip on points at the mast and bow that will keep me on board with a short tether.

My lifejacket/harness tether has two hooks, one at the end of the 6' tether and the other in middle. That allows me to get around obstructions always being tethered as I move hook from one hard point to another. The midpoint hook clipped onto the mast or a foredeck padeye would keep aboard no matter what the boat does.

Figure out how you are going to haul someone back aboard if they should go over. A four part tackle attached to the boom that can be led to a winch should allow even an in poor shape octagenarion to pull someone aboard. A spare halyard would also be another lifting means. Your water probably isn't the most inviting for a dip in the water even in summer but you should practice your recovery techniques. Just as an aside, a smallish women is not easy to haul back aboard either. From experience with a life jacket or even clothing getting hooked on protrusions, a smallish person is very hard to pull out of the water.