Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates

[foolishsailor]

Part of me knew it was going to degenerate as all gun/pirate threads do, but i think it is still impoortant to discuss.

The reason i posted it was not that it was a pirate encounter, but that it was a pirate encounter that was not full of hollywood explosions and bravado but instead one where the couple evaluated their risk and made, in my opinion, the right decision.

All the blast first ask questions later comments seem to be people who dont weigh the realities of the full consequences for that type of decision. Killing an intruder is only the start of your troubles unless you are in deep water. There is more than one horror story about a cruiser ending up in prison after defending themselves.

Anyway...on with the show

[NorthPacific]

Bugger that!

In Canada Olin 20gauge flare guns are legal. I often fire old shells (not up, and in the bush) and often pack them as final (please go away and eat someone else) protection against bears, cougars and bears. Saw wolves off on one occasion. But hitting a moving target on the ocean at any distance good luck. they have very limited velocity and burn intensely for a few seconds.

I have a friend that has his boat rigged with trip switches so that when you get on the boat it triggers flashing strobes and a siren from hell. Sort of turns the tables on the bad guys, regarding, reptilian brain stem that triggers freeze, fight or flee.

[foolishsailor]

Sigh....

Since we seem to be determined to discuss converted flare guns....has anyone actually fired a flare gun with a sleeve and shotgun shell? More than once? Is your hand still attached? Your face?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by NorthPacific

Bugger that!

In Canada Olin 20gauge flare guns are legal. I often fire old shells (not up, and in the bush) and often pack them as final (please go away and eat someone else) protection against bears, cougars and bears. Saw wolves off on one occasion. But hitting a moving target on the ocean at any distance good luck. they have very limited velocity and burn intensely for a few seconds.

I have a friend that has his boat rigged with trip switches so that when you get on the boat it triggers flashing strobes and a siren from hell. Sort of turns the tables on the bad guys, regarding, reptilian brain stem that triggers freeze, fight or flee.

Most people presented with armed intruders tend to offer passive defence. It all you really can do. Anything else risks uncontrolled escalation and potential lethal injury to in essence any of the people involved.

Dave

[NorthPacific]

I agree. The John Wayne in me wants do a Rambo, the want to keep breathing, wants to live through a terrifying event to bitch about it later. I remember the story but not the name of a famous NZ Sailor who was boarded up the Amazon
by an armed gang. He emerged from below with a rifle. One of the gang responded to hands up by shooting him dead.

Someone asked about using shotgun shells with a modern plastic flare gun. Breach not designed for that amount of charge. I think that is why they build shotguns from chunks of steel.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

My question is,,,,, would 9mm be better or 45mm be better as 10mm is hard to come by in lots of places. Slow and fat or fast and skinny.

My xdm hold 19x9mm and my para hold 14x45mm

my thinking is that an ak would be to hard to hide on a sailboat so that leaves handguns

Why hide it?



Add a green laser, a camera and a high speed pan-tilt unit and I could whip up some automatic tracking stuff... When they see a laser painted on their chest from 100 yards and it's tracking their movement, they might retreat.

I wonder what the rules are for 'fake' guns? The Coast Guard and police might think you are a drug smuggler, but it might make pirates think twice about approaching.

And Navies from around the world need to come together and work on this problem.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Sigh....

Since we seem to be determined to discuss converted flare guns....has anyone actually fired a flare gun with a sleeve and shotgun shell? More than once? Is your hand still attached? Your face?

Well I guess this is another gun thread, which is legal in the USA!

The answer is yes! I do my own reloads and use only half the powder. It's for close quarters defense ONLY and pray that I never have to use it.

I keep motion detector alarms on my boat so there is pre warning. Self defense is something that was taught to military vets. And for the ones that had to use it and survived, it's a tool one will not go without.

It seems people are not willing to die for a cause anymore, such as family property or country protection. One can not sum up a lawyer when in a dyer situation. One has to make decisions in very short notice and it's not always guns. A little finesse goes a long way. It's not shoot first and ask later as some put it.

If one is not qualified to handle weapons, then don't! Bend over and take it, cause you will if ever the time comes. If it's too tough then just stay home in ones li'l shelter.

[perchance]

"Resistance is futile". Give them all your money and that Chinese Rocna you you wanted to get rid of. Sooner or later they will drag anchor and drown.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

My question is,,,,, would 9mm be better or 45mm be better as 10mm is hard to come by in lots of places. Slow and fat or fast and skinny.

My xdm hold 19x9mm and my para hold 14x45mm

my thinking is that an ak would be to hard to hide on a sailboat so that leaves handguns

Well, let's see here-since 45mm would be a flak cannon and not a hand gun, Id go with that...

[minaret]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Sigh....

Since we seem to be determined to discuss converted flare guns....has anyone actually fired a flare gun with a sleeve and shotgun shell? More than once? Is your hand still attached? Your face?

Big difference between a sleeved plastic Olin and milsurp flare gun. My barrel thickness looks about 3/16 or more. It handles 4 gauge shells just fine. I too do reloads, as the flares cost about $10 a head. 4 gauge shells cost even more. I use steel case milsurp flares, as these have no expiration date and the steel case makes reloads possible. You can reload with anything, I won't go into payloads I've done here. I don't reduce the initial charge, but you better hang on with both hands or you're gonna get a big chunk of metal right in the forehead!

[captain58sailin]

I know of one vessel that uses the car alarm routed through the loud hailer which can be a deterrent for errant youths interested in taking what is not theirs. Saw it in action one time and it worked well. Also motion detectors are a good idea, if the boarder gets spot lit, they lose the element of surprise. 9 mm and .308 being nato rounds are universally available.

[Custom30]

On a more serious note, prevention is greater than cure.

No one seems to notice that the sailors were relieved of a tidy sum of Honduran notes.

Perhaps when in a a poverty and crime (they go together) stricken Country like Honduras, it may be wise to appear less than affluent when going ashore. Strolling into the local bank and exchanging a large sum to local currency would seem to be begging for robbery. It would be woefully naive to believe that bank employees are somehow safe in such a place. When they go home telling of the foreigners who came in with a wad of money to exchange, the story would spread quickly to someone motivated to relieve them of it.

They say they used their NY street smarts, but such a display is akin to walking around the Bronx at 3am with $100 bills sticking out of your pockets, then claiming to be smart while not resisting their theft.

I am not here to kick them while they're down, just pointing out that many of the things we do routinely and safely at home, are neither in a place like Honduras.

A street smart person would appear to have barely enough to pay for what they required at that moment, and would be a far less appealing target.

In a culture where people are used to displaying wealth for status, the poor are impressed by the display. In a chronically poor culture ruled by the gun, such a display is a recipe for disaster.

You are not safe anywhere, and no amount of armament can make it so. By becoming a less appealing target, the pirate may not risk wasting the precious fuel he must burn to board you. If he knows there is a pot of gold aboard, he takes no risk whatsoever.

We poor cruisers on small simple boats can pull this off a little easier.

[captainKJ]

Originally Posted by minaret

Well, let's see here-since 45mm would be a flak cannon and not a hand gun, Id go with that...

so i meant 45 acp

it still holds 14 of them big bullets so it should do the job and easier to conceal than the flak cannon but not as loud

[minaret]

Originally Posted by captainKJ

so i meant 45 acp

it still holds 14 of them big bullets so it should do the job and easier to conceal than the flak cannon but not as loud

For the thousandth time, I wouldn't recommend "concealing" any sort of weapon on your boat. Much more likely to cause you harm than prevent it. Third world prisons suck. And dogs can find guns and ammo as well as drugs. Very bad idea. Either do the paperwork, limit what countries you visit, and be totally legit, or risk everything. Don't give them an excuse to hold you hostage, it's the pirates in port (officials who want your money) you need to worry about in most places.

[Mr B]

Forunately, Australia and New Zealand dont have pirates, Other than Polititions,
So we dont have to worry about them,

So thats about 20,000 Nautical miles we have to sail in, with out fear, and can sleep safely at night,

Up north, We just have very large Crocs, so dont go in the water unless you want to be lunch for one,

For me, Two good things came out of this thread,

One, I got rid of an illegal firearm before I got arrested for it, $13,000 fine and jail.

Second, I found a site on the internet that explained exactly what my compulsory flares actually did when you fire them off,

As you cant just fire them off to see what they do, or how they do it,
Practice is not allowed,

And areas that do have Pirates, I intend to stay away from,

Cheers,
Brian,