FIRE! Fight or Flight?

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Well US people are more lax I guess, I never have a vest on unless it bad weather, bad.

I guess there are two main reasons I do. The first is that we have kids on board usually, and it's a complete waste of time telling a kid to put a lifejacket on unless all adults have them too.

The second, and most important one for me, is that modern high spec automatic lifejackets are so small and light and easy to use (and include the harness) that it's really no issue to have them on all the time. Thirty years ago they were a pain in the neck, but if you try one of the really good ones they're very different nowadays.

And the third reason (of two) is that I hear so many stories of people trying to find and put on lifejackets when there is a sudden crisis (broach, sail or rig failure, sudden squall and need to get to the mast etc). Why not just have it on and never have to worry where it is?

[Tampabayfireman]

A couple of comments are needed here just to keep perspective. I have been a firefighter for over 30 years and responded to more than a few boat fires both at the dock and near shore. And at least 30-35% have been diesel powered vessels. Causes have been all over the range of overheated generator to fuel leak, electrical short etc. nearly to each one, if the owner or immediate response by someone on or close to the boat doesn’t slow or stop the fire it burns to the waterline Diesel fueled engine fires are related usually to failure of hi pressure fuel lines just before the injection ports. Highest pressure there atomized the fuel. Those are the hardest to stop because by the time they are found so much fuel is Spread around this it’s a big fire.
Next. Day 1 both smoke detectors and CO detector were in my boat as well as telling friends that they are needed. Don’t care what brand as long as you check it Smoke detectors gives you warnings about the fire and maybe time to stop it. A fire doubles in size every 90 seconds. About as long as it took to read this.

Next, when we move the boat our life jackets are not below but in the cockpit if we are not wearing them.
Next make sure anyone on the boat knows how to kill the dc power.
And finally remember fiberglass is mainly petroleum. An extinguisher lives in the cockpit. And yes v cautious about fires and installed a hood extinguisher over the gas stove Halon in eng compartment. And yes a simple full face mast with particular filter. Won’t stop co but might be enough to jump back down to check on is it out or did it flare up

[Nobody]

Lots of useful information here
but I noticed that nobody talked about prevention
with all these stories about boats burning up
maybe we can get some ideas about fire prevention

[TrentePieds]

Re #48:

Well, yes. Discussion of fire prevention has been implicit only. But given that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, maybe you would like to start a conversation specifically about fire prevention?


I think that would be very valuable :-)


TP

[valhalla360]

Way too many variables to give a blanket statement.
- Where? Dock, anchor, offshore?
- What size is the fire when identified?
- What type of fire?
- What is the state of the crew? sleeping, in the cockpit, does the fire block their escape?
- Where is the fire? In the cabin, on the bow, in the engine room?

All of this will change the response but once it gets beyond something small that can quickly be put out, you best bet is take action to get everyone safely off the boat.

[Lihuedooley77]

Know your fire fighting procedures. Types of fire extinguishers.

Have up to date fire extinguishers, and easy to reach life jackets...and everyone knows where they are located and you showed them how to put them on in your pre departure safety brief.

Know that the extingusihers are shore lived in operation and are expended in a few seconds.

Get someone on the VHF or cell phone to emergency service.

Get everyone into life jackets

Get them up wind from smoke and flames

If you cannot get the fire out, ABANDON SHIP

DO NOT EVER BOARD A VESSEL THAT IS ON FIRE TO FIGHT THE FIRE. NEVER !

STAND OFF UP WIND AND HAVE THE PEOPLE FROM THE EFFECTED VESSEL SWIM OVER TO YOUR BOAT. In real life, boat fires are extremely dangerous, Vessel can blow up and or will be totally destroyed to the water line.

IF IN THE AREA, AND SEE THE VESSEL ON FIRE, YOU NOTIFY THE HARBOR DEPT, FIRE / RESCUE, HARBOR POLICE AND/OR COAST GUARD. THE EMERGENCY AUTHORITY CAN VARY AS TO YOUR LOCATION.

Prefer Diesel engines over gas.

Do not put extra gas/ fuel tanks for dink, or boat in any confined space. Lash em to lifelines topside.

Do not let newbies change stove fuel CNG , etc, tanks . You do it your self and understand about reverse threads.

Remember, get out a MAYDAY, and get the crew up wind by manuevering the vessel and their personal movement.

If you cannot get the fire out, Abandon Ship. Hopefully, you have a digny or life raft .
And certainly life jackets, adult and child as required.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

I guess there are two main reasons I do. The first is that we have kids on board usually, and it's a complete waste of time telling a kid to put a lifejacket on unless all adults have them too.

The second, and most important one for me, is that modern high spec automatic lifejackets are so small and light and easy to use (and include the harness) that it's really no issue to have them on all the time. Thirty years ago they were a pain in the neck, but if you try one of the really good ones they're very different nowadays.

And the third reason (of two) is that I hear so many stories of people trying to find and put on lifejackets when there is a sudden crisis (broach, sail or rig failure, sudden squall and need to get to the mast etc). Why not just have it on and never have to worry where it is?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Boat Named Sue

Last week I watched this boat burn down on the lake where I keep my wakeboard boat. Boat was obviously a total loss and the fire was likely already out of control before it was noticed, but it led to a discussion among us of when to try to fight a fire vs. when to abandon ship.

What say you? At what point do you abandon ship (and call the insurance company)?

Columbia Basin Herald - Breaking News, Witnesses recount boat fire, rescue on Moses Lake

P.S. My first time getting drone shots of a boat on fire.

Doesn't it depend on where you are when the fire starts?

sorry I didn't read whatever all the replies became

[Tampabayfireman]

Prevention is a very vast topic and some of the reasons for fires will explain the prevention part. An example of one. Older 35 ft sailboat, couple of newer owners used vbearth for storage. Lights in vbearth are halogens. Yup, came back with laundry, in a hurry shoved clothes basket in vbearth, the clothes touching the ceiling and halogen bulb. Was at night, left lights on. They Ran back to laundry room for next set of clothes. I walked by 30 min later to a fire in vbearth, heavy smoke and flames coming out of hatch. Several issues caused fire and increased damage and also nearly resulted in loss of more boats.

First. Replace every halogen bulb with cooler lights. Less direct contact fire risk. This includes inside of fixture.. repeated heating of wires make insulation brittle and can result in shorting/fire.
Next is housekeeping. Nothing stored that high or near fixtures whether 12 volt or 110.
Third. Review how the fire systems work on the dock you are on if you ever think of using it. Not to drone on but you must pull all the hose out of the cabinets BEFORE you turn the valve on. This is a whole seperate post on use of these.

Next prevention tip is breakers and fuses. There are many sites out here to explain proper wire size for the amp draw. And wiring you place on the boat you are responsible to ensure it is rated for the max amp draw, and as a personal view go next size larger. You still fuse/breaker to the max draw of the line, not to the over size of wire.

Neighbor installing new windless managed to connect the Red and Black to the foot switch relay. No fuse/breaker. He was unfamiliar with the wiring on boat and when he stepped on the switch it shorted, seizing relay in closed mode, and melted 12 ft of 4 ga wire, lots of smoke burning wires until wire melted in two places. By sheer luck didnt burn boat to ground, just a lot of $$ fixing(hiring) the mess he made.

Next major source of house fires which i have seen used on a boat is candles. In unprotected areas, ie not in lantern type holder. People get complacent forget its burning, boat shifts, knocked over, pet bumped and its all over but the crying. I have banned ANY candles from my boat, and gf used to sell Partylite candles, so wasnt an easy fight.

BoatUS released a study of insured boat fire types a few years ago. The key word was insured. Many mnay boats that have had fires were also not insured for many rwasons. Maintenance and housekeeping are always top of that list. Wiring/electrical and heating appliances are there to.

So yes , i am aware of many of the causes , and while prevention is key, so is having the proper equipment to respond or flee. I sleep with cell phone in bedroom, so if i have an issue, not looking for it in the dark.

Also, having a battery powered flashlight clipped in the corner of every room. No searching for a light if i smell something odd.

Many of us never would think of walking off the dock for the day with the pressure water hooked up and left on. (with no pressure reducing fitting, yup can look at 3 boats that were near us) so why do you walk off th boat and leave unnecessary electrical equipment on, ie marine radios, fans, heaters!

And make sure everyone knows where main power shutoff for both 12 volt and 110. At first hint/smell/odor, kill both main power sources. THen and only then after either locating or not power each circuit one at a time following main power routes and devices on each circuit.

Sorry for a long post, many other hints i would be willing to try posting later under new header. Maybe the mod could make a sticky note so the more pertinent ideas can be cut and pasted there. One for prevention, another for fire systems and operations.

[Calif.Ted]

It was a brand new $500,000 fire engine that had only been "in service" for a month after passing rigorous acceptance testing. After a house fire in the middle of the night I went out and took the pump out of gear. Then I turned off the emergency lights, but they didn't go off. I turned off the ignition switch, engine kept running, lights still on. Turned the battery switch to "Off", no change, then noticed the first wisps of smoke from under the dash board. I had someone cut the battery cables while I used an extinguisher on the electrical fire.
After waiting hours for a giant flat bed tow I discovered they used plastic air lines behind the dash and tied them to the wiring harness. So I had no air pressure and had to crawl under the truck and manually release the air brakes.
Had a chief tell me once "If you locked a fireman in a padded cell with 2 bowling balls he'd break one and lose the other."

[Tampabayfireman]

That was locked in a round room, with a bowling ball and a ball bearing, the bowling ball would be missing, the ball bearing broke, and he would say it was like that when i got here.

[Tampabayfireman]

Oh and as far as wiring, we have all seen the black wire bundle wraps used in many projects. Just understand that most are not designed for boats. The cheap non fire retardant brands out there will melt and will catch fire when a wire shorts and catches on fire. This wrap will continue to burn, even after the original wiring fire stopped, dripping flaming plastic into all those cracks below it, and spreading the fire. While it looks great especially in cars and such, if you car catches fire, you open the door and walk away.. if your on a boat, well another story. Use zip ties or the self extinguished brand of wire wraps. Its a case of dont buy cheap if it’s something that can cause Murphy to come into play.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

I guess there are two main reasons I do. The first is that we have kids on board usually, and it's a complete waste of time telling a kid to put a lifejacket on unless all adults have them too.

The second, and most important one for me, is that modern high spec automatic lifejackets are so small and light and easy to use (and include the harness) that it's really no issue to have them on all the time. Thirty years ago they were a pain in the neck, but if you try one of the really good ones they're very different nowadays.

And the third reason (of two) is that I hear so many stories of people trying to find and put on lifejackets when there is a sudden crisis (broach, sail or rig failure, sudden squall and need to get to the mast etc). Why not just have it on and never have to worry where it is?

I was not saying don’t wear a life jacket, by any means. However I’ll admit that on a hot Sunny morning on a clam day, flat water not even clouds and motoring. I’m not going to have one on, and neither apparently did they, cruisers that would under those circumstances are uncommon. I do keep vests in the dinghy, but only to keep from having to carry them back and forth though.

Reading their account of what happened, I can easily see it happening to me, they really in my opinion really didn’t do anything wrong, no spectacular mess up, nothing sticks out that you can point to and say, well that is where they blew it if they hadn’t done X then they would have been fine, what were they thinking, I wouldn’t have done that.

I’d say for the vast majority of cruisers that if the exact sequence of events happened, we would have been in the water too, with burns, just like them.

That is way it’s such sobering reading, and why I decided I needed to upgrade my fire fighting and fire detection abilities.

[TrentePieds]

Hello Tampa and Calif.Ted :-)

THAT is the sort of knowledge and experience we need to post to make newbies aware of the insidious, subtle dangers that can lead to serious consequences.

How many noobs do you think understand the reason that strapping the wires for the solenoid on the propane tank to the gas hose is not acceptable?

You two can render a major service by moulding the way noobs think about these things.

Thanks for your contribution :-)!

[Steadman Uhlich]

I have shared this video before, but thought of it again while reading this thread.

It shows how a boater (fisherman on powerboat) remained too long on a burning boat, because he “cannot swim” and his life vest was inside the burning boat.

He was rescued by a woman in a kayak. She towed him to shore. Brave, clear thinking woman!

https://youtu.be/bzIbv1s9xf8

https://youtu.be/bzIbv1s9xf8

Also, I am still seeing that when I copy a link using the YouTube “share” button under their videos, that when I then paste that link into the CF post I make, it only shows me the link after I save or post. I would prefer to “embed” the video with the viewer showing here on CF so people can see it without having to go to YouTube. I still have not seen how to do this with the ipad. I only seem to get the link to post, but not the viewer. . Suggestions?