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09-08-2020, 23:36
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#121
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,820
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
The limiting factor in nz at the moment is the number of spaces available in quarantine. About 7000, so no more than 500 per day can come in. Most of these are nz returning residents of course (and even they are being restricted by flights being unbookable when the limit is reached). The question is how many per day should be allowed for exceptions, and at the moment those exceptions such as James Cameron and others are being allowed based on a very significant advantage to the nz economy. The proposal by the OCC is supposed to address that - a $50k repair bill represents at least something towards the marine economy. If one or two boats a day are allowed in on that basis then it'll go some way towards offsetting the cost of operating the security too. Quarantine costs are on top, of course.
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10-08-2020, 00:35
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#122
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Around
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,921
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
It was Busefield the owner of the largest yard in Auckland that came up with the 50k number. He is the head of the marine trades association. Don't believe OCC is proposing anything like that. Heard the chap is ok my anchorage, I'll check
__________________
@mojomarine1
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10-08-2020, 10:47
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#123
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 21,188
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Technically, it should be so easy to arrange this in a safe manner.
Opua used to have a detached visitors dock. Simply make Opua the designated arrival dock and make the arrival window open say one month.
Make sure everybody gets tested on arrival then every say 7 days. If clean on the 2nd test, let move on.
It would be very easy for NZ to provide facilities too, if all arrivals were held in one spot.
You do not need to send sailors to hotels. They bring their own.
If NZ wants the cash flow, NZ will find a way to let them in. NZ is a very well organized and efficient place. Way closer in their attitudes to Germany than to UK.
b.
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10-08-2020, 21:47
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#124
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,820
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
You do not need to send sailors to hotels. They bring their own.
b.
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You absolutely do need to send all arrivals to managed secure facilities. Every country knows that self-managed quarantine is a joke and people cannot be trusted to stay in one place. Look at the Australian and UK records of that recently.
In NZ we have video evidence that cruisers can’t be trusted to stay in one place and self-isolate either. Welcome to the dirty wake.
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10-08-2020, 23:22
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#125
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SE Asia, for now
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury
You absolutely do need to send all arrivals to managed secure facilities. Every country knows that self-managed quarantine is a joke and people cannot be trusted to stay in one place. Look at the Australian and UK records of that recently.
In NZ we have video evidence that cruisers can’t be trusted to stay in one place and self-isolate either. Welcome to the dirty wake.
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I’ve seen in both Whangarei (Marsden Cove) and Auckland (Westhaven) that they’ve extended and gated the quarantine docks in both locations. I believe it’s done to enable boats to complete their quarantine (to 14 days including the passage). There may be additional gated docks established to handle the expected influx of NZ (and hopefully other) yachts coming in from the South Pacific.
Just as inconsiderate people in self-isolation on land don’t, same for those on the water, agreed. But tied to a quarantine dock with 24hr CCTV and no access to shore seems to me to be equivalent to being quarantined in a hotel. I assume no fee will apply, or at least not nearly the same as the $3100 per person in hotel quarantine.
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11-08-2020, 04:17
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#126
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,820
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
How can you ensure that they remain tied to the dock and don't use their dinghy?
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11-08-2020, 09:07
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#127
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 21,188
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury
You absolutely do need to send all arrivals to managed secure facilities. Every country knows that self-managed quarantine is a joke and people cannot be trusted to stay in one place. Look at the Australian and UK records of that recently.
In NZ we have video evidence that cruisers can’t be trusted to stay in one place and self-isolate either. Welcome to the dirty wake.
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How many of you in NZ were moved to 'managed secure facilities' during NZ quarantine (23-27 April) ??? Every single Kiwi was nice and kept to the rules ? Really you mean it ? YOU must be joking now.
Were the arriving AC teams placed under quarantine in such 'facilities' and videoed 24/7 ? Or did they get a special treatment due to the mercantile value of the event for NZ ?
And are the video cameras directed only towards the the cruisers, or are they watching the whole well behaved Kiwi nation?
Because if you are only watching the cruisers, then perhaps you are missing the larger picture ?
You are right where you believe that many people do not keep, or treat seriously, the requirements. But this is not something cruisers specific, Maori specific, or Auckland specific - much rather it is something very human and moderately easy to control (e.g. with hefty penalties).
Fine the offenders, keep the rest at the dock as long as testing innocent requires. Keep the 'special facilities' for the moment you need them as emergency hospitals when your party time with Covid arrives. Touch Kauri it does not.
Cheers mate,
barnakiel
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11-08-2020, 16:03
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#128
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SE Asia, for now
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury
How can you ensure that they remain tied to the dock and don't use their dinghy?
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There is existing surveillance of the quarantine docks, so I assume (absolutely don’t know) that would continue and be ramped up.
As for leaving the dock, authorities will know immediately and the police would be on them like a rash and no polite interaction as there was with SZ at Great Barrier Island.
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11-08-2020, 16:12
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#129
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in the boat in Patagonia
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,418
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxykty
There is existing surveillance of the quarantine docks, so I assume (absolutely don’t know) that would continue and be ramped up.
As for leaving the dock, authorities will know immediately and the police would be on them like a rash and no polite interaction as there was with SZ at Great Barrier Island.
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Kiwis are a law abiding people and will follow the example set by their leaders... same as first time around...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21P09R
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11-08-2020, 16:22
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#130
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Around
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,921
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
No yachties allowed into quarantine AND granted visas in advance are going to abuse the system. And this is also after a minimum sea time of 10+ days for anyone from Polynesia and 6+ days from Fiji.
It's important note all current proposals before government cover just the yachts and no visas for crew.
IE large yachts spending big $$$ could theoretically quarantine their crew aboard indefinitely and no visa would be necessary.
The rest of us poor folks will also need visas. And Auckland is kicking down again in just an hour or so....
__________________
@mojomarine1
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11-08-2020, 16:25
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#131
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: SE Asia, for now
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 4,171
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
How many of you in NZ were moved to 'managed secure facilities' during NZ quarantine (23-27 April) ??? Every single Kiwi was nice and kept to the rules ? Really you mean it ? YOU must be joking now.
Were the arriving AC teams placed under quarantine in such 'facilities' and videoed 24/7 ? Or did they get a special treatment due to the mercantile value of the event for NZ ?
And are the video cameras directed only towards the the cruisers, or are they watching the whole well behaved Kiwi nation?
Because if you are only watching the cruisers, then perhaps you are missing the larger picture ?
You are right where you believe that many people do not keep, or treat seriously, the requirements. But this is not something cruisers specific, Maori specific, or Auckland specific - much rather it is something very human and moderately easy to control (e.g. with hefty penalties).
Fine the offenders, keep the rest at the dock as long as testing innocent requires. Keep the 'special facilities' for the moment you need them as emergency hospitals when your party time with Covid arrives. Touch Kauri it does not.
Cheers mate,
barnakiel
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I don’t believe any overseas boats have arrived in NZ since the original lockdown (and here in Auckland we are in lockdown again, sigh). So we don’t know how it will work for cruisers. See my earlier post for speculation.
Of those already in NZ, only people who tested positive were required to self-isolate. As with quarantine facilities, it’s been a slow ramp up to managed isolation facilities. Those are ubiquitous now.
Regarding AC team members, and Avatar production crew and other essential worker imports, the respective businesses pay for quarantine for their workers at the similar quarantine facilities as the government uses for returning residents and citizens. Check out the AC team news - they were quarantined on arrival.
During the initial lockdown the government relied on self-isolation for returning residents and citizens. That didn’t work for the more selfish people, so it got slowly (too slowly in the opinion of many of us) ramped up to what we have now - mandatory quarantine in specified facilities (hotels typically) for 14 days. There are still people that break out, and one case of a guy who broke in!
The application is even handed and is not targeting by race, ethnicity, visitor status, etc. If anything, it’s still too casual with too many loopholes (eg, air crew don’t need to quarantine).
Relax, it’s going to be OK.
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11-08-2020, 16:25
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#132
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Around
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,921
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury
You absolutely do need to send all arrivals to managed secure facilities. Every country knows that self-managed quarantine is a joke and people cannot be trusted to stay in one place. Look at the Australian and UK records of that recently.
In NZ we have video evidence that cruisers can’t be trusted to stay in one place and self-isolate either. Welcome to the dirty wake.
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What evidence? Kiwis that returned home in last 4 months on yachts and jumped quarantine. Ain't been anybody else arriving. And only boat I know of arriving via French Polynesia a few months back only did a 3 day quarantine after sea time was counted in.
Facts are helpful in these situations.
__________________
@mojomarine1
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11-08-2020, 19:59
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#133
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,501
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ
Citizens returning by air doing hotel quarantining without proper security has been the problem in Australia and the company supplying the security was awarded the contract because of it's "woke" status and having insufficient trained personnel hired untrained people. The government who embarked upon this misadventure refused the assistance of the military. Australia's military has personnel trained in humanitarian assistance.
I tend to the opinion that non citizen, non resident cruisers knowing they are under surveillance, being on self sufficient floating residences, and knowing they are liable to expulsion for transgressions of quarantine, would be the least likely to break quarantine.
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