Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

[Montanan]

Australia struggles, Melbourne area declared 'state of disaster'

Australia’s Victoria state declared a "state of disaster" on Sunday and instituted tight restrictions aimed at curbing a surge in COVID-19 cases. An evening curfew was implemented across Melbourne from 8 p.m. to 5 a.m. Authorities also announced 671 new coronavirus cases had been detected since Saturday, including seven deaths. Residents of Melbourne, a city of about 5 million people, will only be allowed to shop and exercise within 3 miles of their homes. All students across the state will return to home-based learning and child care centers will be closed.

"We can't allow this to drag on. And I’m sure everyone would rather get on top of it as quickly and decisively as we possibly can," Victoria Premier Dan Andrews said. "And the only way to do that is to rip the Band-Aid off, go harder – and do it now."

[Tillsbury]

It does surprise me that after a few weeks of what they call "lockdown" they now decide it has to be harder and go "level 4 lockdown", and yet it's still fine to go out to work. Or, indeed, to be pretty much anywhere as long as you tell people you're on your way to work or on your way back, or working. That's just not lockdown, and is surely how to make it last a very long time indeed.

[El Pinguino]

Meanwhile, Queensland with a similar population to New Zealand, far fewer cases and 6 deaths v New Zealand's 22 may be letting yachts in from the SoPac

Stats
Qland https://www.qld.gov.au/health/condit...tus/statistics

NZ https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/...-current-cases

The OCC release
https://news.oceancruisingclub.org/home/index/1348

[JPA Cate]

I don't think anybody's ever really ready to lose their sailing partner to the grim reaper, honestly.

I do think these people would be pretty low risk for the Covid 19 virus, because it hasn't got to where they are going yet. And, probably some of them are European or UK flagged, as well as USA. Those from closer to Greenwich have a much longer trip "home", and most of them would probably want to avoid the Red Sea route.

Consider, for a moment, provisioning in Lautoka, or Suva, for that long a voyage.... Nonstop from Fiji to the Channel or Gib.

Ann

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I do think these people would be pretty low risk for the Covid 19 virus, because it hasn't got to where they are going yet. ...

Ann

Consider the case of most of these people ..... Panama or Ecuador to FP in March April is what? a month or 6 weeks at sea.... then 4 months in a Covid free zone.... then another month at sea to NZ or Oz...

( We took two and a half months Chile to NZ with less than 3 weeks total port time along the way ( Tahiti/BoraBora/ Tonga) so about 2 months sea time.)

Risk of Covid on board..... very very close to nil....

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

It does surprise me that after a few weeks of what they call "lockdown" they now decide it has to be harder and go "level 4 lockdown", and yet it's still fine to go out to work. Or, indeed, to be pretty much anywhere as long as you tell people you're on your way to work or on your way back, or working. That's just not lockdown, and is surely how to make it last a very long time indeed.

Not sure what this has to do with letting cruisers into NZ... however... movements are restricted in Melbourne to 5 km from your home unless you are heading out to bang your girlfriend.... sigh.... yes the state government is incompetent.

'Lockdown'?

Lockdown can mean what ever you want it to mean.....

[atoll]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Consider the case of most of these people ..... Panama or Ecuador to FP in March April is what? a month or 6 weeks at sea.... then 4 months in a Covid free zone.... then another month at sea to NZ or Oz...

( We took two and a half months Chile to NZ with less than 3 weeks total port time along the way ( Tahiti/BoraBora/ Tonga) so about 2 months sea time.)

Risk of Covid on board..... very very close to nil....

fiji to bundaberg is 1600 nm,10-12 days for most cruising yachts,easy downwind passage makes far more sense as a refuge port than NZ,plus australia is not entirely covid free and given current outbreaks unlikely to be by the start of cyclone season.

not a huge bio-security risk for queensland,in fact cruisers stand a greater risk of covid in aus than staying in place in the islands.
the risk for cruisers is loss of property remaining in the islands if there is a cyclone

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

A very big prison camp, indeed. But I think you might be considering the bars from the wrong side

Your hypothesis is one of the most far-fetched I've yet heard on the subject. It almost sounds as if it's completely made up just to make a point...

"fat fetched" what, viruses don't persist or evolve or jump species?

Surely you jest.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I don't think anybody's ever really ready to lose their sailing partner to the grim reaper, honestly.

I do think these people would be pretty low risk for the Covid 19 virus, because it hasn't got to where they are going yet. And, probably some of them are European or UK flagged, as well as USA. Those from closer to Greenwich have a much longer trip "home", and most of them would probably want to avoid the Red Sea route.

Consider, for a moment, provisioning in Lautoka, or Suva, for that long a voyage.... Nonstop from Fiji to the Channel or Gib.

Ann

There's been several good comments in this thread about "risk" of Covid. Of course sailors are always assessing various risks, accepting a few risks, and eliminating or minimising risk where we can.

It seems to me the NZ Government approach to Covid is as close to zero risk as it is possible to get. This was exemplified on March 22 when the full (draconian) lockdown was announced, with only 2 cases of community spread at that time. It's a huge oversimplification, but as an example you could say at that time any one person had a 1 chance in 2.5 million --- a very small risk ... but too high for the NZ Government ... they did not want it to get to 1 in 1000, or 1 in 100,000, and it seems an overwhelming majority of NZ people agree completely.

I've taken 1 in 1000 risks often. Most of us do. But what's the risk number for an international cruiser from FP or Pacific (i) having it on board (ii) getting it to NZ without symptoms (or lying about symptoms, (iii) arriving still infectious, (iv) breaking quarantine /or isolation, and/or having a false negative test result, and (v) then starting a spread?

(Side note - Us Yachties tend to be fairly independent lot, and very keen to get ashore after weeks at sea and there might be 1 or 2 really independent risk taking types in any group of us eh? .... === there's a poor chance of all arrivals complying with quarantine)

Well now I've though about that thinking process, the risk of Covid coming in to NZ via South Pacific yachties is less 1/10th of Bugger All .... but I reckon that's still greater than the past unacceptable risk calculation of 1 chance in 2.5 million.

On the other side of Risk is Cost .... What's the cost of a stuffup? 4 million people locked in again and unproductive again for 2 months? another $ 55 Billion of Government borrowing to pay for subsidies and support?

On that basis, the current non NZ resident cruisers will not get entry permission, on humanitarian ground or any grounds. Criticism of my view is welcomed.

[Fore and Aft]

Looks like the Kiwis are not going to let us share their sheep for a while yet, guess I will just have to keep tying me kangaroo down!
Cheers
https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...79f400200fa047

[Scotty Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Looks like the Kiwis are not going to let us share their sheep for a while yet, guess I will just have to keep tying me kangaroo down!
Cheers
https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...79f400200fa047

Be gentle. At least Rolf was in tune with his singing of it. Or is this about the Sheep Herpes as a CV inoculation again?

[barnakiel]

I am not so sure why sailors are so hell bent on NZ while Australia is ready to take them in:


https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ovid-19-crisis


AUS is a very nice place. Been there seen that.


b.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I am not so sure why sailors are so hell bent on NZ while Australia is ready to take them in:


https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ovid-19-crisis


AUS is a very nice place. Been there seen that.


b.

The whole country? Impressive. And no never been but I was impressed with the tiny bit of NZ that I was able to visit a few years back. Oz is on my list

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

The whole country? Impressive. And no never been but I was impressed with the tiny bit of NZ that I was able to visit a few years back. Oz is on my list

AUS is above and beyond in cruising terms.


We lived in Auck, NZ but in 2006 we moved on and landed in Cairns (June) later sailing over the top end, to Darwin (September). And then we had to hurry across the Indian as the time was to cross it.


I will always always always remember Australia. And I will always dream of going there once again. In fact I would love to live there if only for a short time say two or three years. It is just such a gorgeous, vast and interesting place.


b.

[Ted and Relinda]

We had the great pleasure of spending a very short 10 days in Oz. From Sydney to Melbourne to Cairns and a couple small stops along the way. I can only say the populace that we ran into was very decent to us. Friendly and warm hearted. I particularly remember one old man in Cairns. As we were looking at a WW2 monument to the American soldiers and sailors, he kind of just wondered over , quietly said, " their the reason we aren't speaking Japanese" and wondered back away. I could only think of my Uncle Doug, he was there in the Navy, and never spoke of it. Sure would like to go back and see more of the country.
Ted.