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Old 01-08-2020, 18:19   #46
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by patprice View Post
Why is New Zealand being "picked on" rather than Australia? Or for that matter Marshall Islands.
Pat, I suspect it is because for the past few years (or more) more cruising yotties have elected to cyclone over in NZ than in Oz, and by a fairly large ratio.

Australia has developed a (only somewhat deserved) reputation for not being friendly to visiting yachts, and the coconut telegraph has passed that "gospel truth" back eastward to the gathering places like the Sea of Cortez and Panama where it infected masses of cruisers. NZ on the other hand has solicited visitors and made them more welcome, at least as perceived back east.

And so, when both countries are barring incoming cruisers, the one with the bigger potential influx gets the biggest social hit.

We enjoy both places, but have based ourselves in Oz for nearly thirty years now... and feel that we have "earned" our "safe house" in Tasmania. We're damn glad to be here... possibly the safest spot in the civilized world re Covid (though the Kiwi's might argue that one!).

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Old 01-08-2020, 18:19   #47
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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You can keep your yacht in NZ for 2 years...
Fiji is open....
can you remain in nz for 2 years on a tourist visa?
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:43   #48
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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can you remain in nz for 2 years on a tourist visa?
Maybe so Maybe not.... best to ask a kiwi.

I seem to recall people caught in NZ in March were treated quite well... don't think anybody was forced to leave

We live in interesting times ... we may see some interesting decisions.....
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Old 01-08-2020, 18:51   #49
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Maybe so Maybe not.... best to ask a kiwi.

I seem to recall people caught in NZ in March were treated quite well... don't think anybody was forced to leave

We live in interesting times ... we may see some interesting decisions.....
my son is there on a 1 year under 26 work visa,will be interesting to see if it will be possible to extend it,he only has a surf board though
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:08   #50
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

The widely held sentiment in NZ is that there is no way health authorities and the wider population, and therefore the Government, will be not take any unnecessary risk of Covid returning. They will not risk allowing any non resident entry to the country. If there were to be pre-approved exceptions, my prediction is it's 14 days compulsory isolation in an approved facility, at the cost of about $ 3000 for the first person in a room and $ 1000 for subsequent people sharing the room, plus the costs of deep cleaning and berthing the unoccupied boat etc.

People feel they've paid a very high price to get Covid Free, and so any government taking any risk, or making an error will get absolutely smashed by public opinion.

The lessons were learnt in the early days of Covid - there was obviously a few people who would not comply properly with self isolation - and in the early days that led to near disaster. There's recent lessons around the risk posed by the very few who have "escaped" from managed isolation. The wider population has been very intolerant of these "escapes".

But of course NZ resident returning yachties have to be accepted. They will have to pay the fee for managed isolation, and if they can't afford it then they'll pay it to INland Revenue over time as if it's an additional tax.

Non NZ residents will not get permission. If they just show up, man they'll be unwelcome. My bet is they'll be locked up until their deportation by air and the vessel seized, deep cleaned, and eventually auctioned to pay for the costs.

A hard approach for hard times. I'm absolutely sure the wider population would insist on a hard and 100% Covid-safe policy on this. For the forseeable future.
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:09   #51
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Pat, I suspect it is because for the past few years (or more) more cruising yotties have elected to cyclone over in NZ than in Oz, and by a fairly large ratio.

Australia has developed a (only somewhat deserved) reputation for not being friendly to visiting yachts, and the coconut telegraph has passed that "gospel truth" back eastward to the gathering places like the Sea of Cortez and Panama where it infected masses of cruisers. NZ on the other hand has solicited visitors and made them more welcome, at least as perceived back east.

And so, when both countries are barring incoming cruisers, the one with the bigger potential influx gets the biggest social hit.

We enjoy both places, but have based ourselves in Oz for nearly thirty years now... and feel that we have "earned" our "safe house" in Tasmania. We're damn glad to be here... possibly the safest spot in the civilized world re Covid (though the Kiwi's might argue that one!).

Jim
Trust you are both well. Yes agree with all you have said. Only it just might be easier to get into Qld than NZ?? Probably not. But if I were stuck in the cyclone belt I would look at all possibilities including Vuda, Neiafu and others. It is certainly a "situation" to be in. Great here in Tassie though we would rather be in Greece!!! Though infection numbers in Greece are building with their somewhat open borders.
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:12   #52
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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The issue in NZ is really that we have eliminated COVID here completely with a hard lockdown and huge effort in contact tracing. We are still contact tracing a bit, but no one needs to do physical distancing or wear a mask here, so unless you work in tourism, life is mostly back to normal. The only new cases now are returning Kiwis in managed isolation. Managed isolation is currently funded by the government, and there still have been a few people who have escaped and wandered around for awhile before being arrested. Fortunately only one of those tested positive, but they required a city block and a supermarket to be deep cleaned. The government initially tried self policed isolation at home for returning Kiwis, and so many failed to be home when they were supposed to be that they abandoned that program. No one wants to go back to lockdown.

Sadly, the rest of the world is still coping with large numbers of new cases, and in the US in particular (where Iím from BTW) large numbers of people are refusing to take even simple precautions to stop the spread. American yachties are likely being lumped in the same category. The government here wants to manage the risk of re-infection so they are considering who they let in and who they donít very carefully, which is why the borders are currently closed. BTW the yachties are a tiny revenue generator compared, say, to the 2 million estimated visiting skiers that are currently shut out of the slopes on the south island.
Much of the rest of the world still has large numbers of new cases.......

The South Pacific? .. not so much.

There has been talk of a South Pacific bubble.... that has been a bit quiet lately... seems Samoa vetoed letting kiwis in... not the other way around...
Lets look at the figures....

From wiki

As of 1 August, ten Oceania sovereign states have yet to report a case - Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Federated State of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, and Vanuatu.
French Polynesia... 62 cases... 60 recovered.. nil deaths
Fiji 27 cases, 1 death in quarantine
New Caledonia 22 cases .. nil deaths.....

I'm struggling to see much risk there...
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:20   #53
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

Why NZ?


You can also go N towards the Equator and be safe there.


Or seek safety in the mangroves.



b.
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:21   #54
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Maybe so Maybe not.... best to ask a kiwi.

I seem to recall people caught in NZ in March were treated quite well... don't think anybody was forced to leave

We live in interesting times ... we may see some interesting decisions.....
Yeah those tourists that got stuck here in NZ during lockdown, when everyone was required to stay put in their place from 26 March, unable to move their vehicles other than for a grocery or pharmaceutical trip, they were treated very well, of course.

Our community helped a few out. A German tourist here got stuck in our community, no work, income or cash, for about a month until Lufthansa organised ten or so rescue 747's. She was fed, housed, and given a private lift, driving 300 miles nearly non stop to Auckland airport, as essential travel.

I;m sure that immigration has been entirely open to extending pre-existing tourist and work visas - emphasis on the word pre-existing.
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:27   #55
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Much of the rest of the world still has large numbers of new cases.......

The South Pacific? .. not so much.

There has been talk of a South Pacific bubble.... that has been a bit quiet lately... seems Samoa vetoed letting kiwis in... not the other way around...
Lets look at the figures....

From wiki

As of 1 August, ten Oceania sovereign states have yet to report a case - Kiribati, Marshall Islands, Federated State of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, and Vanuatu.
French Polynesia... 62 cases... 60 recovered.. nil deaths
Fiji 27 cases, 1 death in quarantine
New Caledonia 22 cases .. nil deaths.....

I'm struggling to see much risk there...
It's not a case of "not much risk" its zero risk please.
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Old 01-08-2020, 19:39   #56
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi View Post
It's not a case of "not much risk" its zero risk please.
after 35 days at sea only 4 crew did not have infection,all crew had tested negative after quarantine before their departure

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9621716.html
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Old 01-08-2020, 20:17   #57
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by ejs View Post
The issue in NZ is really that we have eliminated COVID here completely with a hard lockdown and huge effort in contact tracing. We are still contact tracing a bit, but no one needs to do physical distancing or wear a mask here, so unless you work in tourism, life is mostly back to normal. The only new cases now are returning Kiwis in managed isolation. Managed isolation is currently funded by the government, and there still have been a few people who have escaped and wandered around for awhile before being arrested. Fortunately only one of those tested positive, but they required a city block and a supermarket to be deep cleaned. The government initially tried self policed isolation at home for returning Kiwis, and so many failed to be home when they were supposed to be that they abandoned that program. No one wants to go back to lockdown.

Sadly, the rest of the world is still coping with large numbers of new cases, and in the US in particular (where Iím from BTW) large numbers of people are refusing to take even simple precautions to stop the spread. American yachties are likely being lumped in the same category. The government here wants to manage the risk of re-infection so they are considering who they let in and who they donít very carefully, which is why the borders are currently closed. BTW the yachties are a tiny revenue generator compared, say, to the 2 million estimated visiting skiers that are currently shut out of the slopes on the south island.

Well said!


The primary responsibility of a Government is to their own peoples' safety and welfare and non citizens turning up and expecting concessions which may cause the host nation significant expense and potential problems is just not acceptable. Unfortunately there is far to much anecdotal evidence of abuses of trust by outsiders and citizens to take the risk.


If a yacht crew wishes to seek safe haven then make a formal request before heading there, don't think you have any entitlement to turn up and be given concessions that the host Government is not allowing it's own citizens to enjoy.
Returning Kiwis and Aussies are required to go into supervised quarantine at their own expense, in BNE that is AUD2800 per head, so don't expect anything better than equal treatment than the home team, and get pre approval before arriving.
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Old 01-08-2020, 22:53   #58
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi View Post
The widely held sentiment in NZ is that there is no way health authorities and the wider population, and therefore the Government, will be not take any unnecessary risk of Covid returning. They will not risk allowing any non resident entry to the country. If there were to be pre-approved exceptions, my prediction is it's 14 days compulsory isolation in an approved facility, at the cost of about $ 3000 for the first person in a room and $ 1000 for subsequent people sharing the room, plus the costs of deep cleaning and berthing the unoccupied boat etc.

People feel they've paid a very high price to get Covid Free, and so any government taking any risk, or making an error will get absolutely smashed by public opinion.

The lessons were learnt in the early days of Covid - there was obviously a few people who would not comply properly with self isolation - and in the early days that led to near disaster. There's recent lessons around the risk posed by the very few who have "escaped" from managed isolation. The wider population has been very intolerant of these "escapes".

But of course NZ resident returning yachties have to be accepted. They will have to pay the fee for managed isolation, and if they can't afford it then they'll pay it to INland Revenue over time as if it's an additional tax.

Non NZ residents will not get permission. If they just show up, man they'll be unwelcome. My bet is they'll be locked up until their deportation by air and the vessel seized, deep cleaned, and eventually auctioned to pay for the costs.

A hard approach for hard times. I'm absolutely sure the wider population would insist on a hard and 100% Covid-safe policy on this. For the forseeable future.
So if the virus persists in the outside world for years or even decades NZ will keep it's borders closed. Sounds like the worlds biggest prison camp to me.

Consider a hypothetical for a moment: The virus persists. Instead of declining in potency it evolves to become more deadly. However exposure to the early pre-evolved version provides protection.

Sweden is going to look very wise then NZ, Australia and the other "eradicators" are going to appear foolish then.

This things a long way from over and I have the feeling that the so called experts are not so certain of the eventual outcome.
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Old 02-08-2020, 01:01   #59
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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Sweden is going to look very wise then
If there are any Swedes left by then...

(only slightly sarcastic, but yours is a fairly unlikely hypothesis)

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Old 02-08-2020, 01:35   #60
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Re: Cruisers seeking humanitarian refuge in NZ

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If there are any Swedes left by then...

(only slightly sarcastic, but yours is a fairly unlikely hypothesis)

Jim
Dunno Jim, I'd feel a lot more confidence in them if they had found a preventive for the common cold. I keep hearing the statistic that 98% of folks who get it have no or only mild attacks.

Complete isolation did not work out well for indigenous folks.

The maths appears simple. If you have a stable population, an average life span of 75 years, and a population of 300 million the daily death rate average is 300,000,000/75/365=10,959.....I think. Since there are seasonal factors using monthly averages would give a better model. I'd like to see the media giving the figures tor the death rate above and below the averages.

Methuselum is said to have a good punt at it but none of us are going to live forever.
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