Are liferafts really a rational expenditure

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Looking back to survival stories the odds of being rescued after a disaster (on a raft, overturned boat or whatever like icebox) happen solely in the tropics or where the water temperature is high enough to avoid hypothermia. Just a fact to consider..

BR Teddy

Are you saying that no one is ever rescued in cold waters? But that is not true. For example: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...tland-14452059

http://afloat.ie/item/36072-uk-compe...hree-crew-safe

Or what were you trying to say?

[hellosailor]

Dovckhead-
Couple of Avon prices in the US from the first unknown web seller I found:
OCEAN - VALISE - 4 PERS $3,520.00 msrp $2,720.00 net
OCEAN - CANISTER $3,720.00 $2,920.00

That's basically three thousand dollars, plus sales taxes (often 6-8%) plus hazmat freight usually. And that's one of the cheapest models. In the northeast US there's a saying that if you go overboard and hit the Gulf stream, "Next stop, Gander, Newfoundland" which is why I don't think of "coastal" rafts.

Avon is made in the UK, I believe? So perhaps they are more reasonable over there. Sixteen years is great, be happy you and the rafts aren't French.(G) That kind of life seems to be mythical here, perhaps it is simply the repack salesmen that are spreading rumours the rafts will be unreliable by that age. With all the threads from people looking to buy used rafts or having repack questions, it is interesting that no one has ever said "Well, my raft was condemned at....because..."

Of course many of us would gladly saw your boat in two and split it with friends.(G) Smaller budgets.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by HopCar

Throw in an EPIRB or PLB at less than $400 and I'd say you were in good shape for coastal cruising. For ocean crossing I'd want an offshore life raft which can be had for less than $2000 for a four man raft, but a dinghy would probably keep you alive long enough for the Epirb to bring help.

Yep, A PLB lives in my PFD pocket all the time.

I'd like to add a handheld VHF (with DSC) as it is very rare that another vessel is not within 15 miles.

I figure the dinghy will likely be swamped whether it is the hard shell or the inflatable, hence the Gumby suits.

Steve

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Dovckhead-
Couple of Avon prices in the US from the first unknown web seller I found:
OCEAN - VALISE - 4 PERS $3,520.00 msrp $2,720.00 net
OCEAN - CANISTER $3,720.00 $2,920.00

Ouch, try this:

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/lif...iser-liferafts

Pete

[hellosailor]

Pete-
It certainly looks good. I don't see any USCG or SOLAS approvals, although the maker's page says it meets 2005 ISO standards. The usual rafts in the US are plastic tubes with plastic liners, and these are butyl rubber, which I would think was just as good, but don't know. It is a definite difference though.

I've never heard of the company, and have no idea if that's being made in a basement in Shenzhen. Other than those questions, and the price of hazmat shipping over to the Colonies here....That's just shy of $900, making it incredibly inexpensive. (Whether that's a bargain or too good to be true, I have no idea.)

They say they that particular model are for the "leisure market". I'm not sure, but I think they call that "pool toys" at WalMart. Somehow "leisure" and "abandon ship" just don't work in the same sentence for me. (G)

Anyone heard of Seago? Are they in the US market? Pool toy or bargain?

[toddster8]

It does list an ISO conformity. But the other problem with importing some off-brand is that nobody on this continent will service it.
I'm carrying an increasingly ancient Avon raft that can't be serviced. Mostly because it counter-balances the weight of the galley range, on the other side of the boat.

[Leo Ticheli]

I still have my Zodiac 6-man raft, but bought a Portland Pudgy which serves double duty as a nice little dinghy.

If I had to abandon ship in high seas, I'm not at all confident about being able to board the raft and perhaps less confident about boarding the Pudgy; if, however, I had to ditch because of a fire or other non-storm emergency, I would rather be in the Pudgy. I could just raise the sail and self-rescue if my EPIRB and InReach both failed to summon help.

The Zodiac is due for a repack and I find the cost of doing so daunting. I guess my decision will depend on our cruising plans; near shore I'm not sure it's worth it, but a storm hit us pretty hard on a race from Pensacola to Havana and it was comforting to see the raft standing by, even if I doubted we could safely board it in the conditions.

In my view, a small chance is always better than no chance at all.

Fair winds,
Leo

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Pete-
It certainly looks good. I don't see any USCG or SOLAS approvals, although the maker's page says it meets 2005 ISO standards. The usual rafts in the US are plastic tubes with plastic liners, and these are butyl rubber, which I would think was just as good, but don't know. It is a definite difference though.

I've never heard of the company, and have no idea if that's being made in a basement in Shenzhen. Other than those questions, and the price of hazmat shipping over to the Colonies here....That's just shy of $900, making it incredibly inexpensive. (Whether that's a bargain or too good to be true, I have no idea.)

They say they that particular model are for the "leisure market". I'm not sure, but I think they call that "pool toys" at WalMart. Somehow "leisure" and "abandon ship" just don't work in the same sentence for me. (G)

Anyone heard of Seago? Are they in the US market? Pool toy or bargain?

When I looked up the ISO standard I found this, well worth a read.

Six ISO 9650 liferafts tested

[gaucho]

The whole liferaft thing is a racket. Im sorry. But it's the truth. My Passport 40 came with a little known brand: Elliot 6 person raft. It is apparently coastal (and apparantly the only thing that changes is whatever is packed inside). The raft had it's service "default" in 2014. I serviced it at the end of 2016. The "service" is only valid for ONE year. Believe it. One ****ing year.

Total?

1430 usd

Im not going to post every single thing (lots of small items), but will give you the big ticket items:

- $295 Inspection itself
- $138 Elliot certificate (a decal basically)
- $195 Battery with inside light AS (whatever that is)
- $23 in 6 torch D cells (so the one above is a different light?)
- $45 for a cylinder hydro (my guess is the inflation cylinder?)
- $55 for an CO2-N2 refill of such cylinder
- $250 for a flare kit (6 hand, 2 smoke, 4 parachute)
- assorted labels add up to around 50 usd
- other assorted straps and stuff the rest


There is something wrong with not being able to have this stuff last 3 years at least ...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Dovckhead-
Couple of Avon prices in the US from the first unknown web seller I found:
OCEAN - VALISE - 4 PERS $3,520.00 msrp $2,720.00 net
OCEAN - CANISTER $3,720.00 $2,920.00

That's basically three thousand dollars, plus sales taxes (often 6-8%) plus hazmat freight usually. And that's one of the cheapest models. In the northeast US there's a saying that if you go overboard and hit the Gulf stream, "Next stop, Gander, Newfoundland" which is why I don't think of "coastal" rafts.

Avon is made in the UK, I believe? So perhaps they are more reasonable over there. Sixteen years is great, be happy you and the rafts aren't French.(G) That kind of life seems to be mythical here, perhaps it is simply the repack salesmen that are spreading rumours the rafts will be unreliable by that age. With all the threads from people looking to buy used rafts or having repack questions, it is interesting that no one has ever said "Well, my raft was condemned at....because..."

Of course many of us would gladly saw your boat in two and split it with friends.(G) Smaller budgets.

Life rafts cost double or triple in the U.S., as elsewhere. I'm guessing liability insurance. Our bloody foolish tort system.

You can get a decent raft here for under a grand. Vacuum packed and three year service interval.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Pete-
It certainly looks good. I don't see any USCG or SOLAS approvals, although the maker's page says it meets 2005 ISO standards. The usual rafts in the US are plastic tubes with plastic liners, and these are butyl rubber, which I would think was just as good, but don't know. It is a definite difference though.

I've never heard of the company, and have no idea if that's being made in a basement in Shenzhen. Other than those questions, and the price of hazmat shipping over to the Colonies here....That's just shy of $900, making it incredibly inexpensive. (Whether that's a bargain or too good to be true, I have no idea.)

They say they that particular model are for the "leisure market". I'm not sure, but I think they call that "pool toys" at WalMart. Somehow "leisure" and "abandon ship" just don't work in the same sentence for me. (G)

Anyone heard of Seago? Are they in the US market? Pool toy or bargain?

Seago raft best of test in PBO a few years ago.

Not premium but decent and usable. I have Seago PFDs and like them. Not a no name off brand at all.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Or what were you trying to say?

There's a lot more fatalities than success stories considering liferafts and higher latitudes.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gaucho

The whole liferaft thing is a racket. Im sorry. But it's the truth. My Passport 40 came with a little known brand: Elliot 6 person raft. It is apparently coastal (and apparantly the only thing that changes is whatever is packed inside). The raft had it's service "default" in 2014. I serviced it at the end of 2016. The "service" is only valid for ONE year. Believe it. One ****ing year.

Total?

1430 usd

Im not going to post every single thing (lots of small items), but will give you the big ticket items:

- $295 Inspection itself
- $138 Elliot certificate (a decal basically)
- $195 Battery with inside light AS (whatever that is)
- $23 in 6 torch D cells (so the one above is a different light?)
- $45 for a cylinder hydro (my guess is the inflation cylinder?)
- $55 for an CO2-N2 refill of such cylinder
- $250 for a flare kit (6 hand, 2 smoke, 4 parachute)
- assorted labels add up to around 50 usd
- other assorted straps and stuff the rest


There is something wrong with not being able to have this stuff last 3 years at least ...

That's only because the raft was way out of date, and you let the service station provide all the consumables. All those things have different service periods, none as little as one year. My station charges 110GBP for the service (about $140), and lets me provide the consumables, if they're needed. I don't bother with changing the expensive proprietary canopy light battery provided it works when tested; flares get to go a year or two over, and hydro testing is only required once in 10 years IIRC.

So your next service shouldnt cost you more than $250.

I would not, however, want a raft with one year service interval. What a PITA that would be. Modern rafts are vacuum packed and go three years.

[hellosailor]

The article from Yachting may be a bit dated (2009) but it is interesting that SeaGo took a best place last year, while it was last back then. Maybe they've been listening to feedback.

Interesting point they raise about a UK raft, serviced in the US by the authorized station, that was serviced so improperly it would have sunk if deployed. Oopsie?

Dockhead, if I were you, I think I'd choose to have the two rafts serviced by two different companies to protect against that. And you're certainly right about three years being expectable and not unreasonable.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The article from Yachting may be a bit dated (2009) but it is interesting that SeaGo took a best place last year, while it was last back then. Maybe they've been listening to feedback.

Interesting point they raise about a UK raft, serviced in the US by the authorized station, that was serviced so improperly it would have sunk if deployed. Oopsie?

Dockhead, if I were you, I think I'd choose to have the two rafts serviced by two different companies to protect against that. And you're certainly right about three years being expectable and not unreasonable.

Two companies? No, I do one better - I WITNESS and actually participate in every service. The main thing is blowing them up and leaving them overnight, and carefully inspecting the seams. Weighing the bottles. I participate in this.