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Old 21-01-2021, 17:31   #1
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ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Along with the 2000 previously lost, is it not time for a mandatory law.... that every container be fitted with a locator beacon that can be activated by salt water if lost overboard?
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Old 21-01-2021, 17:37   #2
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Well, it would be nice if they broadcast their positions till they sink, especially the ones that don't sink because there's so much styrofoam packing.

I wonder what it would cost? If you're looking at an AIS beacon that will broadcast for 5 yrs, or so, you'd have the battery costs as well as the units, and millions of containers..... and would they have to be retrofitted to older containers? Given the costs of shipping freight, it would make it way more difficult for the less wealthy nations to ship stuff. Besides, cruisers and racers are a very small percentage of the whole population.

Your suggestion may be possible, but imo, unlikely.

Ann
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Old 21-01-2021, 17:50   #3
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Hi Ann,
I think it can be simpler than that as it could be a GPS or vhf signal, that works only on the surface if practical.

Presently the container industry mostly scans containers to monitor their movements, but also has trackers for high value containers.

Every cell phone has a GPS tracker, so the technology is already here to replace the scanning technology with a pro-active system that can be assigned to every overseas container
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Old 21-01-2021, 18:25   #4
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Well, it would be nice if they broadcast their positions till they sink, especially the ones that don't sink because there's so much styrofoam packing.

I wonder what it would cost? If you're looking at an AIS beacon that will broadcast for 5 yrs, or so, you'd have the battery costs as well as the units, and millions of containers..... and would they have to be retrofitted to older containers? Given the costs of shipping freight, it would make it way more difficult for the less wealthy nations to ship stuff. Besides, cruisers and racers are a very small percentage of the whole population.

Your suggestion may be possible, but imo, unlikely.

Ann
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Old 21-01-2021, 19:41   #5
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

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Hydrostaticly switched self destruction.
Another idea with great appeal for cruisers, for sure. First started hearing chat about this approach in about 1976. Still a concept for cargoes that would sink.
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Old 21-01-2021, 20:18   #6
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

I think our electronic tracking technology is way beyond and cheaper than hydrostatic self destruct.

Just wonder what the cargo insurance costs are for lost containers annually. Not just storm loss, but lost or stoken ?

My thinking is to retrofit containers with a tiny steel insert for a low power small tracking device that can be turned on remotely or if emersed in salt water will broadcast long enough for salvage operations

Rechargeable Li battery that lasts 30 days on standby.

Mass produced, i dont imagine those would not be a big cost

https://www.insurancejournal.com/new.../04/528321.htm
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Old 21-01-2021, 20:32   #7
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

How about containers not going into the oceans in the first place? One may think that is wishful thinking yet the official analysis of recent containerized cargo losses states that 'excessive hydrodynamic forces' are to blame. Of course, 'human error' is always mentioned. Indeed, human error is listed as a causative factor.

Surely, lashing systems can be installed which exceed the hydrodynamic forces exerted.

Alternatively, laws can be implemented that a ship shall not sail certain routes during certain seasons. Merely the attempt to avoid weather systems is not enough; the ONE Apus reported Force 4 conditions although a long period swell of 16 meters was present.

That ships are stacked to the heavens with containers is a worrisome sight. Reduction of cargo allotment may be necessary. That would not be limited to older ship designs. The ONE Apus was new, having entered service in 2019.
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Old 21-01-2021, 20:49   #8
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

When speaking of safety systems which activate in an emergency condition, there are additional concerns which need to be addressed.

Shall crew add to ship duties the maintenance checks of such systems?

There is a problem of logistics to supply parts. Already there is a backlog of six months to two years for most of the parts for systems already mentioned here. Just of LI batteries, the computer industry is expanding at a tremendous rate. Vendors have not been able to keep up with demand.

Too, LI starts with mining operations. Processing, manufacturing, distribution, etc just for ship board systems creates it's own long supply chain. I dare say it would overwhelm an already stretched to capacity logistics.

Globally, there are probably 100,000+ containers in transit at any given time. Does each and every container carry a tracking device? How are those devices maintained? At what time interval? Without undue interference to shipping activities. Without impacting port operations.

How are LI devices recovered or recycled? Shall the oceans be littered with hazardous materials in the interest of tracking flotsam?

These are just off the top of my head. Certainly there are more valid concerns.
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Old 21-01-2021, 20:59   #9
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

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Along with the 2000 previously lost, is it not time for a mandatory law.... that every container be fitted with a locator beacon that can be activated by salt water if lost overboard?
No need for all that just have manditory flood holes in every container that lets it sink right away. To expensive to salvage them.
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Old 22-01-2021, 01:40   #10
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

They already have mandatory flooding ports. It's what's inside them that allows them to sink or not and the rate.

Stacking racks which some of the newer, bigger ships have are probably the only certain solution.
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Old 22-01-2021, 09:22   #11
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

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They already have mandatory flooding ports. It's what's inside them that allows them to sink or not and the rate.

Stacking racks which some of the newer, bigger ships have are probably the only certain solution.
Racks have been around for more than 40 years, and they work. It is a question of cost vs time. Ships with racks load quicker, cost less to load and discharge, but are more expensive to build.
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Old 22-01-2021, 09:58   #12
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Why not a water activated knock out plug that could either be physically knocked out or self dissolve when immersed. Probably 2 per container.
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Old 22-01-2021, 10:40   #13
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

In addition to locator beacons and some of the other ideas expressed above, these hazards to navigation should be sunk by naval gunfire at the earliest opportunity.

Our boys and girls would have a blast!
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Old 22-01-2021, 10:55   #14
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Losses of items at sea is not so simple. This would be in the same category of recreational vessels going to sea ill prepared by someone's opinion.
The container loss issue is becoming a simple law of reaching size maximums. The forces being developed at the top of the stacks in the rolling of the vessel are exceeding the design formulas. Simple. Will this get corrected easily- no. The immediate IMO answer is reduce via flag states the height of the stack- and proposed is reducing cargo capacity by up to 20% . Well, that is not going to go well with the shipowners, the mortgage owners, and the environmentalists, because the law of economics of size are what create the lower pollution percentages. So heavier lashings/more of them may help, but that also reduces the cargo capacity, raising the carbon footprint. So when all done, the issue is not simple.

as far as tracking the containers, the recovery is only for the containers of high pollution ie, deadly chemicals.
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Old 22-01-2021, 11:21   #15
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Re: ANOTHER 750 Containers overboard

Fit the containers with rupture disks, top and bottom. When the containers fall in the water the disks disintegrate and the containers sink. It can be the glue that holds the disks in place or the disks themselves that disintegrate in seawater. Think waxed cardboard.
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