Why learning to sail is important

[sailorboy1]

Over the years when things got nasty and problems occurred beyond my experience level I have found that having read “what to do” helped a lot. It rarely goes as you read of it, but it is something to base your decisions and actions on. After that being able to not over panic is probably most important in my mind.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Bill O

...
Seen a few people go into panic/frozen mode, so maybe this event was this guy's limit and he couldn't mentally function to get the boat back to shore.
...

Agreed.

I have seen too many people, outside of sailing, who have had quite a bit of training, including yearly training, and when things get a bit stressful, mess up and do the wrong thing. Seen it for decades in quite a few people. People with good training and experience.

Flip side is that I have seen some people who just cannot function with stressful situations, even with training. Not just a question of doing the right thing, at the right time, its they just cannot really do it right at all. Add a wee bit of stress and they go to pieces.

If there is some physical discomfort AND stress, forget about functioning.

Not saying that this is the case in the reported situation.

Then, even people who usually do the right thing, at the right time, just have a bad day and f.... up. We are human and not perfect.

Later,

Dan

[roland stockham]

Bear in mind that the principle in all rescue services is that it is an emergency needing their help if the crew cannot cope with problems and conditions. The reason they cannot cope is irrelevant to whether the vessel is in distress. Someone will always say they should have been able to cope but it will never be the rescue services. The way I read the report the boat suffered a knockdown severe enough to cause flooding which then knocked out all the electronics and the steering failed. After seven hours the skipper was unable to fix it and probably exhausted. With darkness coming on and probably no clear idea of where he was I would say it was a good call for him.

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

I would love to hear how to steer a boat with no steering. I know you could play with more Jib and less main to go one direction, and the reverse to go the other, but then when you get near land what do you do if you have no communication?

Could you even find Land with no electronics if you did not know where you were?
That kind of steering would be best accomplished (single handed) with roller furling jib and main, but perhaps just a reefed main and roller furling jib would be enough.
Has anyone attempted to steer a boat this way?

BugzyCan my response to you post is in no way a personal attack. These are questions for all of us to consider and share the ideas and answers.
How would you try to steer the boat with no rudder?
How would you try to communicate?


Here are a couple of my answers to my own questions.
How would you try to steer the boat with no rudder?
1. tow warps from one side of the boat, warps being lines, but really can be anything that creates drag. Anchor, bucket, old boots.
2. bolt the emergency rudder blade on to my spinnaker pole and lash the new rudder to the stern of the boat.
3. Change the balance of the sails.

How would you try to communicate?
1. Flares
2. EPIRB
3. Visual distress signal.
4. Signal flags
5. cell phone
6. backup handheld radio

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Bear in mind that the principle in all rescue services is that it is an emergency needing their help if the crew cannot cope with problems and conditions. The reason they cannot cope is irrelevant to whether the vessel is in distress. Someone will always say they should have been able to cope but it will never be the rescue services. The way I read the report the boat suffered a knockdown severe enough to cause flooding which then knocked out all the electronics and the steering failed. After seven hours the skipper was unable to fix it and probably exhausted. With darkness coming on and probably no clear idea of where he was I would say it was a good call for him.

You make several good points.

[wingssail]

Both training and experience can help prepare a person to cope with that kind of ordeal on a boat in rough weather. Seasickness, exhaustion, and hypothermia sometimes make the ordeal much less tolerable.

But in my experience a large part of the equation is a person's innate capability to cope with extremely difficult situations.

Some people, even with training or time on the water, are going to fall apart when the going gets impossibly tough. They just are. They just have not yet developed the resourcefulness or resilience, or maybe just the stubborn persistence, to carry on. On the other hand I've met people with little or no experience or training who just seem to figure out something, and get it done. Who never give up.

So proposing a certain type of training or preparation misses whether or not the person has it within themselves to cope. Training and experience helps everyone, certainly, but for some, it won't do it.

One can hope that each of us finds out before the s**t hits the fan whether or not we're cut out for it, and if not, move on to something else before it gets to the point where we have to get winched off the boat.

[BugzyCan]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

BugzyCan my response to you post is in no way a personal attack. These are questions for all of us to consider and share the ideas and answers.
How would you try to steer the boat with no rudder?
How would you try to communicate?

Here are a couple of my answers to my own questions.
How would you try to steer the boat with no rudder?
1. tow warps from one side of the boat, warps being lines, but really can be anything that creates drag. Anchor, bucket, old boots.
2. bolt the emergency rudder blade on to my spinnaker pole and lash the new rudder to the stern of the boat.
3. Change the balance of the sails.

How would you try to communicate?
1. Flares
2. EPIRB
3. Visual distress signal.
4. Signal flags
5. cell phone
6. backup handheld radio

I realized I opened myself up to some nasty comments in my post, so thank you for posting the way you did. I then googled it, and one of the ideas presented, and tested, was steering the boat while dragging a Drogue, which seemed to work well as described here.

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...ipment-tested/

Another note in the testing, it was not possible to steer using sails alone.

It seems that everyone out on the water should have a Drogue as standard gear, and know how to use it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

I would love to hear how to steer a boat with no steering. I know you could play with more Jib and less main to go one direction, and the reverse to go the other, but then when you get near land what do you do if you have no communication?

Could you even find Land with no electronics if you did not know where you were?
That kind of steering would be best accomplished (single handed) with roller furling jib and main, but perhaps just a reefed main and roller furling jib would be enough.
Has anyone attempted to steer a boat this way?

We used to discuss this quite a bit on here.

We beach cat racers have to hold our boats still on the starting line if we arrive too soon. Most times we do that with just main and jib. Sometimes for a couple minutes and you cannot cross the Start/Finish line early (OCS) or you will be penalized

This gives you some good training for steering the boat without a rudder.

Last year, my tiller broke in half while I was crossing the Chesapeake Bay. It broke right at the attachment to the rudder.

Luckily I was on a reach and the winds were about 17 -18 knots so I just used the main and jib and steered the boat in the last few miles like that then when I got close enough to land so the waves weren't too high I came on in the rest of the way with the outboard after I put it back down into the water.

Also it was a good thing the rudder wasn't jammed, but moved back and forth easily as the boat turn with sail steering

After a bit I got the jib set right, and just steered with the main sheet.

If I was further out, I'd have to rig something so I could sail longer with this setup

[Bertie68]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This idea could ruin many that are beginner cruisers who like to say...... sailing the boat is only a small part of cruising!

Yep. In fact I thought I knew how to sail as I had some sailing courses in my youth, and afterwards I rented a small (21') cruiser for a day with the family in a lake, and a light sailboat a couple of years ago. Not too bad, I remembered perfectly how to take the boat roughly to where I wanted to. Both times we had good weather and no incidences at all, so it was a quite enjoyable experience. So I thought that I knew how to sail...

..until I recently bought a new-to-me small sailboat, a Vivacity 20. When I rented, they took me in a dinghy to an already fully prepared boat, so all I had to do was to grab the tiller and ropes and there we go.

Now I have a boat in my local marina, and were not for the help of previous owner, a very experienced sailor who is kindly giving me some practical advice, I'd be completely lost. From undocking and docking, rigging/unrigging the sails, knowing local conditions such as currents, tides, weather, shallows... that's a whole lot to learn! In fact he has told me, half joking, that he will not allow me to go solo until I get his approval. Also, that I should take family and guests with me only with good weather and in near perfect conditions if I want them to repeat the experience.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

I realized I opened myself up to some nasty comments in my post, so thank you for posting the way you did. I then googled it, and one of the ideas presented, and tested, was steering the boat while dragging a Drogue, which seemed to work well as described here.

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...ipment-tested/

Another note in the testing, it was not possible to steer using sails alone.

It seems that everyone out on the water should have a Drogue as standard gear, and know how to use it.

Sure it's possible and some boats do it better than others.

During races on beach cats we used to take short cuts across lower water (less than 1') with daggerboards up and rudders up) steering with sails only at 10-15 knots

With the old Bristol I have now with it's long/full keel I believe that helped the time I had to steer it with sails alone.

[schchris]

Many thanks for the article and weblink on how to use a drogue. Very informative.

[ChrisJHC]

Practised steering with just the sails and a drogue last week.

Took a bit to work out how to rig the drogue but, once it was deployed, it worked quite well.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

...

2. bolt the emergency rudder blade on to my spinnaker pole and lash the new rudder to the stern of the boat.

...

Numerous experiments (easy Google search) have found that a board fastened to spinnaker pole is pretty much impossible to rig in such a way that it will actually work - the loads are too high and without actual fittings on the stern there isn’t anything for the pole to pivot against.

Maybe a steering oar?

Drogue, bucket, anchor, etc on a bridle to both stern corners is the best bet.

Practice your emergency steering method!

[Connemara]

According to the story, which is the usual not-very-precise report intended for a general public, the boat was just off Bream Head, which means there's some very evident land to the south, west and north, as well as islands to the east. This site -- https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...garei/historic -- gives the wind at about 15 to 20 knots easterly or a bit southeasterly, so he would have been pushed off shore over time. And then, of course, there's nothing until you hit Chile.
The sun was out and it was comfortably warm. So, all in all, pretty benign conditions.
I've sailed through there fairly often and the water can sometimes be pretty bouncy, owing to cross currents and wind over tide stuff. I'm surprised, though, that he sustained enough damage to be unable to steer; perhaps some pre-existing condition, such as a frayed cable, chose that moment to act up?

Connemara

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

I would love to hear how to steer a boat with no steering. I know you could play with more Jib and less main to go one direction, and the reverse to go the other, but then when you get near land what do you do if you have no communication?

Could you even find Land with no electronics if you did not know where you were?
That kind of steering would be best accomplished (single handed) with roller furling jib and main, but perhaps just a reefed main and roller furling jib would be enough.
Has anyone attempted to steer a boat this way?

Has anyone attempted to steer a boat this way?

Yes. One night, about midnight, on a Southern Straights race approaching Sisters Island, (not on my boat but a similar race boat, somewhat older) nice northerly breeze, about 15 knots, close hauled on starboard tack, when the boat suddenly luffed up and the helmsman shouted, "No steering!".

Before we could do anything the boat tacked onto port so we tacked the headsail over and sheeted in, then began steering by pulling the main on hard to come up or or easing it off to fall down. Two of us dove down below to take a look at the steering system. Meanwhile other boats in the vicinity, all still on starboard tack, began to hail us, with typical righteousness, "Starboard!!"

Our crew yelled back, sort of chagrinned, "No Helm No Helm!"

Fixing the steering was taking longer than I'd hoped and we were going the wrong way, being close to the starboard layline to Sisters. I shouted onto the folks on deck, "See if you can tack this pig."

They eased the jib out completely and hardened the main. The boat came up head to wind, the jib backwinded, and we tacked over, and resumed as before steering with the sail on starboard tack.

Finally we got the steering sorted out (cables, we had a spare piece which we put on with bulldog clamps) and we were happy to find out we'd not lost any places, after all.

So going upwind or even a reach, a fin keeled boat can do quite nicely steering with the sails.

Downwind you're going to need to drag something which you can move from one corner of the boat to the other to cause the boat to steer.

Could you even find Land with no electronics if you did not know where you were?

Now is where you get out your paper chart or guide book, and referring to your log book, plot your most recent known position (we all have a paper chart and a log book with hourly positions, don't we?). You can assume your current dead reckoning position by advancing your last log book entry based on your speed and heading from that fix.

You must know which way land is, East, West, North, South and you follow the compass that direction. No compass? Well dang it. Now you've got to keep a heading relative to the sun or the moon (rise in the east, set in the west,) or some stars if you know any. Or sail aimlessly until someone comes along to loan you a compass. And shame on you for being so unprepared.