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Old 14-04-2017, 12:08   #16
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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You don't just need a chronometer for celestial navigation. The 3 essentials for dead reckoning are :

A chart
A compass
A way of measuring time

Every boat should have these 3 items as a backup, in case the GPS breaks.

I wouldn't be so Luddite as to insist on a mechanical timepiece, though. But make sure you've got spare batteries!
Nice mechanical timepieces that DO NOT NEED BATTERIES and are quartz crystal accurate are the citizen and casio watches that are recharged with light... (solar or otherwise) Very accurate, and just keep them so they get cabin light.



I keep this as a 'watch for the boat'. No wearing and possibility of damage. Set to UTC time. Works wonderfully. Not as sexy looking at a chronometer. Never needs batteries... No issues for the last 10 years. (although I also have two Citizen units.. one as a spare.) Recently I noticed that casio is also making them. I have no personal experience with the casio, although the look they are priced less the the citizen units.

links to Citizen Eco Drive:

links to the casio units:
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Old 14-04-2017, 12:46   #17
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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If you want an accurate mechanical watch, and have $5,000 to spare, why not buy a new Omega Seamaster? Beautifully engineered, with Master Chronometer certification.
And that's just to buy it. I had an Omega Speedmaster and it required cleaning and adjustment every two years, to the tune of $600 at an Omega service center. I sold it on Ebay after 23 months.

Honestly, an expensive mechanical watch is nothing more than a status symbol. The "factory spec accuracy" of a Seamaster is somewhere around +/- two seconds a day. If my Timex Ironman lost or gained half of that every day I'd deem it defective, toss it in the trash, and buy a new one for $35.
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Old 14-04-2017, 12:57   #18
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

Dozens of marine chronometers available on eBay. Most are from India where they have been recovered from ships which were broken up.

But, there are others of interest.

Here's one for $39 which is brass, quartz movement, made in W. Germany:
VINTAGE BRASS WORKING AIRGUIDE QUARTZ CHRONOMETER MADE IN WEST GERMANY | eBay

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Old 14-04-2017, 13:16   #19
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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I keep a bit of an eye out for nautical antiques - never see old chronometers, must be a few around. Where have they all gone?
I have one - a Poljot I bought on eBay for no reason I've ever been able to understand.



They're still available on eBay, but prices are more than double what I paid.
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Old 14-04-2017, 13:56   #20
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

If you want one just for looks or as a collectors item, as noted, plenty of them on eBay.

If you want one for accurate time or celestial navigation get a quartz digital. About 35 years ago I bought a $20 Casio, "water resistant" digital, solar. I took the back off and there was a tiny screw to adjust the rate (probably a rheostat). I tinkered with that until I got it down to less than 1 second per month (verified against WWV). Had it as deep as 300' fw, didn't change the battery for years and it's still going.
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Old 14-04-2017, 14:19   #21
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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I have one - a Poljot I bought on eBay for no reason I've ever been able to understand.
Because it's a beautiful, well crafted bit of marine technology. Because it's totally cool. Because it looks a lot better on the coffee table than some dorky, show off, art book.

If you get tired of it I'll take it off your hands. Even pay for shipping.
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Old 14-04-2017, 14:34   #22
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

The beautiful old clockwork chronometers in the fancy chronometer boxes stopped being standard kit on new merchant ships in the mid to late sixties when fancy seiko 'quartz' ones and the like started to appear. Those ships went to the breakers 20 or 30 years ago so those chronometers found their way to new homes yonks ago....

So all now living in old men's dens etc .....
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Old 14-04-2017, 15:09   #23
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

It is sometimes like talking to a wall here.

I am telling you it needs to be a mechanical movement.

If you use a quartz, you can as well use a gps unit.

The problem with mechanical watches is they need winding up. The problem is it takes ages to re-get used to winding a watch after years of not doing so (or, like me - not actually having a watch for 30 years or so now).

And contrary to what some less experienced posters say, one does not need a watch to get the most basic astro nav. Simply take noon shots and do latitude sailing. Then buy a new Casio when you land.

Cheers,
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Old 14-04-2017, 15:11   #24
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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Because it's a beautiful, well crafted bit of marine technology. Because it's totally cool. Because it looks a lot better on the coffee table than some dorky, show off, art book.

If you get tired of it I'll take it off your hands. Even pay for shipping.
It's truly beautiful to watch it work, but what with the nested boxes, the brass case and the finely-threaded 1/2" thick crystal, it takes a lot of opening things up to actually get to see it.

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Old 14-04-2017, 15:25   #25
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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And contrary to what some less experienced posters say, one does not need a watch to get the most basic astro nav. Simply take noon shots and do latitude sailing. Then buy a new Casio when you land.
AIUI, that was the technique these folks were using...


Scilly naval disaster of 1707
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Old 14-04-2017, 15:44   #26
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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I stopped carrying great-grandad's pocket watch in the 80's because a. I finally got a wrist watch and b. The only place in town that cleaned and adjusted them closed.

But on topic: wanting to maintain some sort of quality and accuracy, I shipped off the non-functional ship's clock on my boat to the Chelsea service center. For only a mere $200 and a six-week turnaround, they stripped out the old workings and inserted a $1.99 battery clock that you could get anywhere, produced radio noise with every tick, only functioned between 70 - 90 °F, and lasted about six months.

So, I don't know whether I'll put in another $1.99 movement myself - for $1.99 this time - or find something completely different to put in that nice brass case. But then it won't match the barometer any more.

It would be nice to have a completely non-electrical backup.
This was my thought. I got a Chelsea for $250 from eBay. It's remarkably consistent in how it loses about 30 seconds per day over a week (the "rating") even though I've got it pinned to "F" (for 'fast'). But as I know this, I can adjust it as needed.


If you think these are rare/pricy, you should see the "24-hour" aka "Zulu" aka "deck clock" aka "radio room clock" I want to get for beside the SSB. The idea being that the more traditional mechanical clock would keep "local ship's time" and the 24 hour clock would always be on GMT/UT.
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Old 14-04-2017, 16:07   #27
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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It is sometimes like talking to a wall here.

I am telling you it needs to be a mechanical movement.

If you use a quartz, you can as well use a gps unit.
Hi b.

Why does it need to be mechanical? If just to be consistent with the use of a sextant and manual navigation methods, OK I can go along with that.

If seriously going for a chronometer for celestial and backup for GPS or some other electronic navigation a quartz is more accurate, more reliable, zero maintenance for the foreseeable future. Mechanical needs regular cleaning, maintenance, rating and adjusting to stay accurate.

If you do go mechanical how will you calibrate and test it? If you have the requisite skills and equipment it can be done by astronomical methods but I think very few could manage that and I believe it requires land based, multiple observations, etc. Otherwise you're back to depending on modern, electronic methods to keep the mechanical chronometer correct.


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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
And contrary to what some less experienced posters say, one does not need a watch to get the most basic astro nav. Simply take noon shots and do latitude sailing. Then buy a new Casio when you land.

Cheers,
b.
I always liked taking latitudes from Polaris (obviously have done my sailing in the northern hemisphere). But as pointed out, running down latitudes does have its potential problems.
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Old 14-04-2017, 16:37   #28
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

Personally, if I need accurate time, I'm quite happy with my Casio watch (which has lost 2 seconds since I last synchronized it some time in February) plus the 7 independent GPS devices I have on board (main nav system, 2 tablets, 3 phones, 1 x Garmin 78)
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Old 14-04-2017, 16:48   #29
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

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I keep a bit of an eye out for nautical antiques - never see old chronometers, must be a few around. Where have they all gone?
I think they must be with all those expensive slide rules that were in the fine leather cases. It's pretty much impossible to ind a good slide rule these days!
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Old 14-04-2017, 18:24   #30
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Re: Where Have All The Chronometers Gone?

Hi! I'm aAbottleofrum, one of the boards newest members.

I'm also a master watchmaker, trained by Rolex. I'm SAWTA Certified, and an AWCI member for life. Allow me to clear up alot of questions.

Where have the chronometers gone? Under your bed of course!

No, actually they haven't left. But what defines a chronometer has changed considerably. By default, a Chronometer is any mechanical watch that meets the rigorous standards of the Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres. COSC for short. Rolex watches by default are all chronometers, as are a few other high quality watches.

Notice what I said though? Mechanical.

In the US, there are less than 900 trained and certified watchmakers. Average age is 70. Having just graduated a year ago, at 25, Im one of the youngest in the country and will likely see the death of this industry. The main watchmaking hubs are Pennsylvania, Texas, and Ohio.


To sum up months of education, the beat of the watch is determined by the oscillations of the balance wheel. And even THAT is a crude answer at best. The more "in beat" the watch is, the steadier the rate (how fast or slow the watch runs). A chronometer keep an extraordinarily steady rate, in various positions, and is praised for its accuracy.

However, ALOT of things can affect the rate of a watch... debris, position, heat and cold, atmospheric pressure, and you guessed it... motion. Guess how many of these applied to cruising?

As far as a regular chronometer is concerned, it is USELESS in the open sea. Which is why the Marine Chronometer was offered tens of thousands of pounds for a reward of its development and John Harrison is the Vespucci of watchmakers, if I can use a bit of nautical jokes.

Even then, mechnical watches, by sheer design, don't match the accuracy of a Quartz watch. A chronometer can lose around a second a day in real life situations. A quartz loses about a second a month.

Hold your horses before you buy that fancy new Timex. 90% of all quartz watches are delicate, flighty things. Made of plastic movements, they break easily, are made of foreign parts, and the slightest amount of moisture damages the IM (integrated module). If the quartz oscillator goes bad, the motherboard made like ****, or a nick finds its way on your coil, the quartz watch is junked. Furthermore, try finding a battery in the middle of an ocean when it inevitably runs out. Go ahead, I dare you.

Mechanical watches, in good condition, require a few seconds of winding each day. They are physically built to last, and to take various impacts provided their sealed. Marine Chronometers even moreso. They were designed for boats.

To the guy who suggested the Citizen Eco-Drive; good suggestion, and he is right on that. But he failed to mentioned the specialized battery core that only Citizen Watchmaker has access too and can install. They don't need batteries, but like all functioning objects, stuff happens.


TO THE REST OF YOU CHUCKLEHEADS SUGGESTING EBAY: Hey, those are great prices but you forget one little thing... the servicing. Its a Marine Chronometer of good quality is going for that low, do not rely on it unless it has been verified to have all factory original parts and serviced by a Marine Chronometer specialist. I am NOT one, though I've worked on them. They were so many aftermarket indian/chinese/japanese ******** parts flooding the market before the Quartz crash, it was insane. This affected the longevity of those pieces like you wouldn't believe.

In conclusion....

Chronometers : Super accurate, useless at sea.
Marine Chronometers: Made for the seas, due research and maintenance of whatever you get. Toss me a PM if you want a nod in the right direction.
Quartz: Super duper accurate, tempermental bastards that are broken when they break. Super cheap, but you get what you pay for.
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