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23-02-2016, 09:05
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,904
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US Navy bring back sextant
The US navy, after a decade of not teaching it:
U.S. Navy Brings Back Navigation By The Stars For Officers : NPR
Quote:
The Navy stopped training its service members to navigate by the stars about a decade ago, focusing instead on electronic navigational systems. But fears about the security of the Global Positioning System and a desire to return to the basics of naval training are pushing the fleet back toward this ancient method of finding a course across open water.
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Probably a smart move. I was surprised that their officers were NOT trained in its use, but like everything else, if they do no actually practice, how proficient will they be?
One thing, it means that sextant manufacturers are not going the way of the buggy whip.
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If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
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23-02-2016, 09:49
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,787
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
The good news: Back to basics, and better prepared navigators.
The bad news: They are getting prepared to go back to basics.
They sure know more than we do.
"In a big war, the GPS satellites could be shot down. Or, more likely, their signal could be jammed or hacked.
Already, jamming has become more common, Weeden says. "You can buy a lot of GPS jammers off the Internet," he says. "A lot of those are made by Russia."
He thinks the Russians probably have systems to jam the special signals the military uses as well. And China may be developing similar capabilities."
+ The possible comeback of GPS signal dithering.
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23-02-2016, 11:07
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
They need a reliable backup in the event of an electromagnetic pulse strike.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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23-02-2016, 11:29
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jupiter FL
Boat: temporarily boatless...
Posts: 803
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
I agree, I think they know they would be strung up if GPS failed (which seems NOT to be impossible and maybe not even improbable) and they couldn't perform basic nautical functions like figuring out where they are...
If nothing else, they are covering their a&&es. And who knows, maybe it might even be necessary or useful. Let's hope not.
Pete
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23-02-2016, 11:35
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
On the other hand this could be a knee-jerk reaction following the recent capture and release of our out-of-bounds naval vessels and their crews.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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23-02-2016, 12:44
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,577
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Both Tara and Tatia have it correct. Our obsessive infatuation with electronic navigation has created a dangerous vulnerability for both the individual sailor and the military of his/her nation. Although a sextant is used primarily offshore and out of sight of land, it cannot be jammed and with an experienced navigator, it is accurate within a fix of +/- 2 nm. And, it teaches skills that have been honed for the last 500 plus years of successful navigation. Traditional and celestial navigation should be required for all US naval officers and should be practiced on a regular schedule. I often wonder how many "cruisers" on this forum could successfully navigate their vessels without electronic ATN's. Good luck and good navigating. Captain Rognvald--plotting his next EP.
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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
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23-02-2016, 13:10
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,861
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova
On the other hand this could be a knee-jerk reaction following the recent capture and release of our out-of-bounds naval vessels and their crews.
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This is old news and was announced before that incident. Best reason I have read, but not heard verified, is that the boats GPSes were spoofed.
Later,
Dan
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23-02-2016, 13:23
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 664
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
There's another aspect.
This is sending a very big message to the Education system, to improve the mathematics competence of those leaving the Education system . . . . .
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23-02-2016, 13:24
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#9
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,415
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Didn't work out well for us when I served in the Navy on a sub. We lost navigation and just wanted to go north for 6 hours till the satellite was due so we could reset the system. Too bad after that using the old school real reclaimable nav method we headed south.
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Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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23-02-2016, 13:31
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lake Erie
Boat: H36
Posts: 384
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Solar storms could knock out gps. Is anyone left to teach log tables, also a lost required art. No GPS and no calculator.
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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23-02-2016, 13:35
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Florida's Gulf Coast
Boat: CSY 33 Cutter
Posts: 318
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
I am an active duty Navy officer in the US Submarine Force. Have been for a really long time; long enough to have learned celestial navigation the last time it was part of an officer's formal education.
There is a vast difference between the US Naval Academy's recent decision to (re)implement celestial navigation, and the Fleet's policies on what constitutes "prudent navigation" of multi-billion dollar platforms. Put simply, you don't risk lives and missions on navigational fixes of questionable accuracy. For GPS-denied environments, there are alternate methods of fixing ship's position, and most of them are far more accurate and reliable than celestial navigation.
But there is other value to bringing back the sextant. In addition to being one more "tool in the navigator's toolbox", fixing a ship's position from the stars is a part of our heritage, a mark of a professional seaman, and a way to signal a young kid from the Bronx or Iowa that they have joined a MARITIME organization. And that membership in an elite cadre comes with tradition and ritual...like knowing more than the average bear about noon sights and which star is Spica.
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23-02-2016, 13:42
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,332
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald
Although a sextant is used primarily offshore and out of sight of land, it cannot be jammed and with an experienced navigator, it is accurate within a fix of +/- 2 nm.
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Can't be jammed? Ha! Just wait for nuclear winter and endless ash clouds. I'd like to see you get a fix then!
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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23-02-2016, 13:48
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#13
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,415
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman
Can't be jammed? Ha! Just wait for nuclear winter and endless ash clouds. I'd like to see you get a fix then!
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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not going to make much difference then will it
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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23-02-2016, 18:18
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Norfolk, Va
Boat: 83 Tanzer 27
Posts: 42
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
As a QMSN on the USS LaSalle in the late 70's where there was no LORAN and a VERY unreliable OMEGA, we went weeks on D.R., Fathometer and whatever we could get from the heavens. They never should have stopped. It is not the Officers that need the skills, it is the whole NAV division. No offense intended to the O corps out there.
Ken
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23-02-2016, 18:49
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Boat: PDQ 32 DogHouse
Posts: 608
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Re: US Navy bring back sextant
Do they not have INS anymore? I remember when we first got GPS on our destroyer. Made a huge difference in NGFS but nav was still mostly INS.
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