U.S. Navy ship goes aground due to bad charts

[steven_b]

Actually, I've never been on a minesweeper so it's possible the XO and Navigator are the same person, but the ANav is typically a senior enlisted sailor.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

... a transfer without loss of rank, that's damned generous for killing your own ship, isn't it? Sounds like they couldn't fix direct blame on anyone or thing.

I don't think a formal investigation has been held yet, or at least I don't recall hearing about same, and the conclusions. I'm still expecting a court-martial.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I don't think a formal investigation has been held yet, or at least I don't recall hearing about same, and the conclusions. I'm still expecting a court-martial.

Senior Leadership from Ex-USS Guardian Fired | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News

[Jammer Six]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And a transfer without loss of rank, that's damned generous for killing your own ship, isn't it?

No, it's not.

[sailorboy1]

I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Don L

I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?

The difference is its their job , they,re professionals.

Dave

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The difference is its their job , they,re professionals.

Dave

I don't feel that is any different, other than name calling.

[hellosailor]

Ah, Don, those guys are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS of the highest caliber. They didn't just run aground solo, they missed all the checks and balances against each other, and TOTALLED A MINESWEEPER in the process.

It isn't casting stones, it is simple fact that for reasons which have not been passed on to us, someone helixed the pooch, big time.

Now of course, most of us have the luxury of deciding we're just not going into shoal or uncertain waters. Until and unless someone speaks up as to what was happening? Yeah, Pooch. Helixed. Totally.

They were not in combat operations. There is no excuse to endanger and loose a ship that way outside of combat.

And by the way, the bill for that little mishap will be split up and added to the taxes for every US taxpayer this year. We're entitled to an explanation.

[sailorboy1]

Don't know about that. I was in the navy and remember the first time I was in charge of maintaining the course plot. I was really the engineroom supervisor and had no idea what I was doing.

One of these days I'll tell you how a multi-billion dollar nuclear submarine was going south for 4 hours when it was suppose to be heading north (basically lost at sea).

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Living in Subic, I hate to see our US Navy visitors come to grief on a reef.
They are good people, doing a tough and by its very nature, secretive job.

The vast majority of the locals greatly appreciated US Naval presence and their gifts of old jets, equipment and training to help them defend their land and offshore rights.

The issue of ‘Bad Charts’ is purely a legal red herring as the NAMRIA charts are notoriously full of clerical errors and of worst possible quality. It is just part of the Political legal defense from those with a personal agenda against the USA.

The accident will obviously damage a few careers and can only be attributed to very poor bridge management.
It is not anything more than that.
The good news is that by May/June when the light wind transition period is in force, the US will have cleaned off every piece of debris from that small part of the reef and life will go on.

I am sure the officers got a fair hearing.

The Navy has done a great job removing the pieces and the weather is now perfect for divers to remove any debris left on the floor.
This will be completed by June and by the end of 2013 Typhoon season starting in July, mother nature will have re-seeded the grounding site.

With North Korea making all kinds of stupid noises, lots of US military action in Subic now and this has silenced most of the anti-US bashing from local political opposition and extremists.

Bottom line, the Philippines will receive all kinds of military perks from the US as unspoken compensation and those who can see the big picture will be grateful for their friendship.

[Lake-Effect]

A recent news summary with some video.

Originally Posted by Don L

I haven't been reading this thread, but can not believe people are still harping about it.

I've run aground so would never think of casting any stones. How about you?

It's a long thread, but back here are my reasons for wanting to know exactly what happened. In particular, I want to know the truth of the Filipinos' allegation that reef park rangers radioed the Guardian to tell them that they were entering restricted waters without authorization, but the Guardian bridge just blew them off.

There's a bit more behind this than 'chart error' or having a bad day.

I agree that overall the US Navy is a welcome presence in the Philippines, and that everyone will get past this.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In particular, I want to know the truth of the Filipinos' allegation that reef park rangers radioed the Guardian to tell them that they were entering restricted waters without authorization, but the Guardian bridge just blew them off.

This part of the story lacks a ring of believability. Does it make sense that park rangers have a radar station, and spend their days watching for vessels to stray into a restricted area? If the story originated in the Filipino media, then it is most likely BS - a lot of "newspapers" there are not above manufacturing "facts".

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

This part of the story lacks a ring of believability. Does it make sense that park rangers have a radar station, and spend their days watching for vessels to stray into a restricted area? If the story originated in the Filipino media, then it is most likely BS - a lot of "newspapers" there are not above manufacturing "facts".

It was a credible enough account that Australian, UK, France, US and many other news agencies picked it up. This is the Philipines' most important reef diving location with a legislated 10 nm exclusion zone, a staffed base, patrol boats and frequent authorized boat traffic. What part of having radar/AIS/VHF etc doesn't make sense?

Anyway, the alleged communication is easily proven, or disproven, by the Guardian's own logs. I'm taking US silence on that allegation as confirmation.

[hellosailor]

"There's a bit more behind this than"
Let's see now, the folks in charge are the USN. Oh, wait, that's the same folks who lied about the USS Peublo, and covered up the lies behind the Gulf of Tonkin incident for so many years. One being a matter of national security perhaps, the other being simply a matter of political expediency perhaps crossing into treason and fraud.

Convenient that they chose a ship which is so easy to scrap.

Perhaps they were chasing North Korean minisubmarines (which have been found in South Korean waters) and just didn't want to alarm anyone. Or maybe they were in hot pursuit of whoever stole the strawberry ice cream?!

So I'll go with the easy answer, that wreckers put up false lights and led them aground. That's the kindest answer that can be found, right?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

It was a credible enough account that Australian, UK, France, US and many other news agencies picked it up. This is the Philipines' most important reef diving location with a legislated 10 nm exclusion zone, a staffed base, patrol boats and frequent authorized boat traffic. What part of having radar/AIS/VHF etc doesn't make sense?

Anyway, the alleged communication is easily proven, or disproven, by the Guardian's own logs. I'm taking US silence on that allegation as confirmation.

From: http://tubbatahareef.org/wp/manageme...e_park_rangers

The ranger station perched on the southernmost tip of Tubbataha’s North Atoll is home to a combined team of 10-12 men from the Philippine Navy, Philippine Coast Guard, Municipality of Cagayancillo and the TMO. Stationed for two months at a time, 130 kilometres from the nearest inhabited islands, their job is to protect the park from illegal activities including fishing and collection of other marine life such as top shells (Trochus niloticus).

Their work includes:

• Regular patrols around the park
• Conducting scientific research and monitoring
• Briefing visitors during the dive season
• Surface and underwater cleanups
• Reporting and responding to unusual incidents, like crown-of-thorns starfish infestations

Don't mention radar watches and I don't think it likely they would be doing a regular patrol in the middle of the night.

As to credible news agencies picking up less-than-credible stories - the Globe and Mail ran this story - Canada checks report of deaths from warship's wake - The Globe and Mail This was a follow-up article; the original article was a whole lot more accusatory, but is not available online.

It was taken from a Filipino tabloid - the legitimate papers in the Phillipines didn't run the story, because there wasn't a lick of truth to it.