Traffic Separation Zones

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

"Required" vs "supposed" is a useful correction to my post -- thanks!


I'm not saying you're wrong, and maybe it's a matter of taste, but I don't like the way you use the phrase "give way" in this post.

What if you're sailing parallel to the TSS and you're biding your time, continuing on your way, while waiting for that freighter to get past you, before turning across? Is that "giving way"? Not the way I use the term. It's "not impeding", which I think is different.


"Giving way" is used in the Rules to describe the role of the active partner in the giving-way/standing-on dance. It's not used in any other way, and certainly not in the context of Rules 9 and 10. In my humble opinion it's useful to use the term precisely in this way, as the Rules do.

Thanks for that, I see your point - perspicacious as always

In future I will adopt your more restrictive use of the term "give way".

Perhaps "yield to" is a better generalised expression to encompass the various "not impede", "keep clear of " and "give way to" rules since it doesn't have the implication of necessarily taking a positive action.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I also like Mark's post, and I like very much that you point out the common sense and seamanship basis of the Rules. Love the "big fast truck" vs "gimpy pedestrian"!


I would only offer a couple of suggested minor refinements to Mark's post:

1. Delete reference to "rule of tonnage" -- not required for the conclusions presented, and the concept is awful and lubberly.

2. "You have no rights or protections when on the highway" ought to read "no one has any rights or protections when 'on the highway' or off it -- it doesn't work like that"

3. "Only large fast trucks use the highway" -- might be somewhat more accurate if it said "as a gimpy pedestrian, stay on the shoulder and off the highway being used by large fast trucks".

4. "Never be on the highway at night or in fog" might add "without having both radar and AIS". You could be waiting a long time to cross the English Channel if you took that rule as originally written.

Wrong attribution. It was Tacoma Sailor who gave the plain language guidelines. (Mark thinks that you can swan around in the separation zone and don't need to yield to anyone)

Good one, I'm going to include those guidelines with your amendments in the training materials for the "learn to sail" course I teach here.

[Lodesman]

[QUOTE=StuM;2279316]Rule 8 (f) makes is quite clear that Rule 10 (j) requires the small craft to take early action to allow safe sea room. i.e. to "give way" before any risk of collision exists.
/QUOTE]

It is truly amazing that you can find a rule, apparently read the rule, and once again omit all the pertinent parts of that rule that don't mesh with your sophomoric interpretation of the rules. To "allow sufficient sea room" is not the same as "give way", nor should it be applied as such.

I suppose the shot about rule 14 was aimed at me - shows you know even less about me, than you know about the rules.

[weavis]

Gentlemen

May I remind you that in a discussion, the differences make for learning and growth.

We would appreciate the application of the be nice rule in all exchanges.

Too much valuable information here to have the thread dissolve into hurt feelings.

Im really learning from this exchange...

[justwaiting]

Of course it is interesting to see how commercial vessels see the TSS. This is from ShipOfficer.com

A Traffic Separation Scheme (TSS) is not easy to miss, being marked very clearly on all relevant charts. Several exist in north European waters, primarily to introduce motorway-style traffic control, for areas heavily populated by commercial shipping.

There are three very important parts of Rule 10.
The first is found in paragraph (a), which confirms that vessels using a TSS are not absolved of their responsibilities under the other Rules. This means, that at the end of the day, the Steering and Sailing Rules still apply, when navigating within a TSS. If there is another vessel crossing the TSS and it is on a steady bearing with the attendant risk of collision associated with this, then you still have to do something. Just because you are in a TSS does not give you any rights, whatsoever. There are some, who think that because they are in a TSS and have another vessel on their own Starboard side, they do not have to give way. This is a totally false understanding of the regulations, as they are still obliged to give way, even if it means leaving the TSS for a short period of time. Remember also, most TSS’s around the world are monitored by radar and you could subsequently receive a heavy fine or even be imprisoned with your livelihood taken away, should you infringe any of the rules in a TSS.

The second important point is found in paragraph (j), which clearly states that all craft under 20 metres (or 66 feet in length) must not impede power driven vessels following a traffic lane. In practice, given the relative manoeuvrability of small craft, there is no reason why they should do so. A vessel forced to make a course correction for a small vessel might in turn, come into conflict with another vessel in the same lane.
The third important point is paragraph (d). Vessels of less than 20m in length, sailing vessels and vessels engaged in fishing are able to make coastal passages along inshore traffic zones and should encounter a TSS, only when crossing one.

The rule for crossing a TSS paragraph (c) is very simple: set a course, which is at 90 degrees to the flow of the traffic within the lanes. You must NOT make any allowance for the tide in a TSS. The aim is to provide an aspect, which is at right angles to the ships you are likely to encounter, not to achieve a track over the ground, which is 90 degrees to the charted lane. Simply following the track to a waypoint on an electronic navigator could in fact bring about an infringement of the rules, especially if on a slow vessel when there is a strong cross-tide.

When approaching a TSS and indeed, when navigating in any area likely to be populated by other ships, it is safest to take a highly jaundiced view of whether other vessels will take any notice of you at all. Collisions still occur between commercial ships, which in many instances can only have come about because of poor watchkeeping and/or poor visibility from the bridge. Some of them even manage to hit large stationary objects, on a regular basis.

Even for well-manned vessels, there are sometimes locally agreed moratoriums, which can affect a ship’s behaviour in a TSS. For instance, it might be assumed that ferries, when crossing the Dover Strait TSS, will do so at anything up to 10-15 degrees off the required course, pinching up against the tide to stay within published timetables, which is only understandable.

Rule Of the Road – EXPLAINED | Ship Officers

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

Gentlemen

May I remind you that in a discussion, the differences make for learning and growth.

We would appreciate the application of the be nice rule in all exchanges.

Too much valuable information here to have the thread dissolve into hurt feelings.

Im really learning from this exchange...

Lucky you..
I thought I had a pretty good grasp after years of successfully negotiating TSS around the world.. now I'm getting confused.. god help a newbie..

[conachair]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

Of course it is interesting to see how commercial vessels see the TSS. This is from ShipOfficer.com

Rule Of the Road – EXPLAINED | Ship Officers

Excellent link, thanks.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

Of course it is interesting to see how commercial vessels see the TSS. This is from ShipOfficer.com

Rule Of the Road – EXPLAINED | Ship Officers

Interesting site, but doesn't give a lot of detail. Should take note also of rule 18:

It is also worth noting that at no stage do the rules state that a vessel constrained by her draught (CBD) should be “kept clear of”. A vessel CBD still technically, has to give way to other vessels, should a risk of collision exist and she is the “give way” vessel.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by justwaiting

Of course it is interesting to see how commercial vessels see the TSS. This is from ShipOfficer.com

Rule Of the Road – EXPLAINED | Ship Officers

From the same page, a bit more about what "shall not impede" means:
Looking at Rule 9(b), what constitutes ‘impeding’? Let’s take a pragmatic view. If a small vessel gets close under the bows of a vessel of 150m (490ft) or more, it is likely to run it down and not even notice. Many harbourmasters with a mixed jurisdiction of commercial and leisure users, are worried that a pilot or master will, sooner or later, try to take drastic action to avoid hitting careless small boats, which will cause a major shipping catastrophe. Given the limited manoeuvrability of large vessels, their equally limited view from the bridge and the time it takes for them to stop, this is open to debate. Certainly, professional seamen are often given anxious moments by smaller craft and that anxiety ultimately brings pressure to bear on the freedom of the water for us all. So, again, small craft should stay well clear, which is what this rule is emphasising.
As if to qualify how close you need to get before a vessel is impeded, Associated British Ports introduced their new ‘Area of Concern’ for Southampton Water and its approaches during 1993. Any vessel of 150m (490ft) or more entering the notified area immediately has what is known as a ‘Moving Prohibited Zone’ (MPZ) stretching 1000m (0.6nm) ahead of it and 100m (330ft) on each side. All small craft are banned from this zone. When you think about it, 0.6nm is not very far from the bows of a ship moving at 10 knots, which will take only 3 min to cover this distance through the water.

[StuM]

Another extract from the same Shipofficers.com page which is apropos:

"Rule 2....Ships, of course, have obligations to smaller craft under the steering rules, especially when not using narrow channels or official Traffic Separation Schemes, and might be obliged to give way when on a collision course with a vessel of any size. But whether a small craft in a stand-on position should hold course and speed to force the issue, when safer options are available, becomes highly questionable under this Rule."

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

Another extract from the same Shipofficers.com page which is apropos:

"Rlue 2....Ships, of course, have obligations to smaller craft under the steering rules, especially when not using narrow channels or official Traffic Separation Schemes, and might be obliged to give way when on a collision course with a vessel of any size. But whether a small craft in a stand-on position should hold course and speed to force the issue, when safer options are available, becomes highly questionable under this Rule."

I don't think that's questionable at all. "Forcing issues" has got no place in any collision avoidance situation!! Small vessel in this case should stand on ONLY to fulfill the purposes of the Rules -- that is, to give the larger vessel a chance to take the active role. If it is obvious that this is not going to happen, for whatever reason, then the smaller vessel has the right to abandon standing-on, or never start doing it.

The point of "not impeding" is to never get into a stand-on/give-way situation in the first place. If you did, then you screwed the pooch. Stand on if the circumstances indicate that the larger vessel is maneuvering or is going to maneuver; otherwise get the hell out of the way.

"Get the hell out of the way" does not mean maneuver in a panicky or erratic way. It means make a bold and obvious but calculated move to get you out of the way before he gets there. Right back out of the TSS if possible.


Some (including the MCA) think this is bad practice; but if I screwed up and got into a risk of collision situation while crossing a TSS, I would call the ship on VHF and ask him not to alter course, and inform him that I'm turning around or whatever. And apologize. So that he wouldn't have to try to figure out whether he needed to maneuver or not.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

- The highway has no crosswalks or traffic signals

Interestingly the TSS in from of Rotterdam as a "crosswalk", and harbour control will signal when it is safe to use it...

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't think that's questionable at all. "Forcing issues" has got no place in any collision avoidance situation!! Small vessel in this case should stand on ONLY to fulfill the purposes of the Rules -- that is, to give the larger vessel a chance to take the active role. If it is obvious that this is not going to happen, for whatever reason, then the smaller vessel has the right to abandon standing-on, or never start doing it.

The point of "not impeding" is to never get into a stand-on/give-way situation in the first place. If you did, then you screwed the pooch. Stand on if the circumstances indicate that the larger vessel is maneuvering or is going to maneuver; otherwise get the hell out of the way.

"Get the hell out of the way" does not mean maneuver in a panicky or erratic way. It means make a bold and obvious but calculated move to get you out of the way before he gets there. Right back out of the TSS if possible.


Some (including the MCA) think this is bad practice; but if I screwed up and got into a risk of collision situation while crossing a TSS, I would call the ship on VHF and ask him not to alter course, and inform him that I'm turning around or whatever. And apologize. So that he wouldn't have to try to figure out whether he needed to maneuver or not.

Once again I agree with you 100%.

If you do get into the position where a large vessel in a TSS has to take avoiding action because of you, you have indeed already "screwed the pooch".

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lucky you..
I thought I had a pretty good grasp after years of successfully negotiating TSS around the world.. now I'm getting confused.. god help a newbie..

Ditto ...

All those years in the day job and I had to sign on the good ship 'CF' to find out how 'the rools' should be applied and how to deal with TSS.... dunno how I survived..

I'm with Mark.... I think I will just go fishing in the separation zone until things quieten down here....

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by StuM

Once again I agree with you 100%.

If you do get into the position where a large vessel in a TSS has to take avoiding action because of you, you have indeed already "screwed the pooch".

Then again.. how do you know they have not made a 2degree course adjustment 10nm away.. you cant tell the difference.