Thoughts from experienced skippers please

[Tatheelrod22]

OK. I have 40 years of sailing experience and own my own Schooner. I have been asked to move a recently purchased Schooner for its new owner from the Alabama coast down to and possibly through Lake Okeechobee. In anticipation of my recent retirement a few years prior I got my US Coast Guard 50 ton masters license with the sail endorsement. I don’t need that for this trip given no paying passengers however here is my question.

There will be three paid hands with me for the trip. I have no concerns for any part of the trip other than the short trip offshore from Carrabelle Florida to somewhere around Tarpon Springs Tampa, etc. depending upon weather factors. It’s not a long trip (likely 30 hrs +-)however it is offshore and I was surprised to learn last night the owner doesn’t seem to feel obligated to provide a life raft, EPIRB, or even a dinghy. Over the last couple of months I’ve gotten to know him I thought reasonably well and I’m still shocked about this. My gut feeling is to tell him that I am happy to get the boat over to the Florida panhandle for him however I have no intentions of taking a wooden Schooner and three other people out into the Gulf of Mexico without more emergency contingency back up.

I can’t imagine that I am being too cautious about this but if some of you folks have a different opinion I’d love to hear it. I have not yet communicated to him these thoughts so I wanted to post this first.

[ChrisJHC]

A quick internet search shows a number of places in Florida that will rent out a life raft and EPIRB.

Maybe the owner will be more amenable to that?

At the end of the day, it is your decision whether you do the trip or not.

[JPA Cate]

however I have no intentions of taking a wooden Schooner and three other people out into the Gulf of Mexico without more emergency contingency back up.

I agree with you. As skipper you would bear the whole responsibility. The US is a litigious place.

I think you should have the owner hire the equipment needed--it's hopefully only 3 or 4 days--a week at most. If the owner doesn't want to, go sailing on your own boat and let him find someone else.

Probably nothing bad would happen, but if something bad did happen, you'd be left holding the bag, and possibly wind up feeling guilty for the loss of the three crewmen, even if you yourself were somehow rescued. Not a pretty picture.

Go with your own gut on this. Or, you hire the stuff, and charge him a lot more: for the insurance for the voyage that you will have to buy, as well as the equipment hire.

Ann

[Calif.Ted]

Doesn't seem practical not to have a dinghy at least, how do you get to your shoreside steak dinner on arrival ?

[boatman61]

If the owner won't provide a dinghy or life raft for emergency use I would advise him to sail it himself..
My life is to expensive for cheap boggas..
Make sure you have a working EPIRB.. 2 would be even better just in case. .

[CSY Man]

Yeah, the owner can do the trip himself solo without a dinghy or a liferaft.
(Or offer you triple pay, then you can rent the raft and be compensated)
If not, walk away from the job.

[carstenb]

If he won't rent or buy the equipment - walk away and let him sail it himself

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

I have no intentions of taking a wooden Schooner and three other people out into the Gulf of Mexico without more emergency contingency back up.

Good call. You don't even need to discuss with the Owner. You're the Captain.

Rent the relevant safety equipment and adjust your fee. If he asks why, you can tell him directly. Otherwise, you can just cite "unanticipated accessory gear" or some such.

Remember, all of this is on you and your ticket (your 50-ton licence); Owner doesn't have a ticket to consider. That's why he's hired you. It could be just sheer unconsciousness/ ignorance on his part. People who haven't been professionally trained often don't think of these considerations at all. Meanwhile, we Captains/Skips, think about stuff like this all the time!

Fair winds and an uneventful trip,
Warmly,
LittleWing77

[Island Time O25]

Perhaps owner's refusal to have this emergency gear on board is indicative of how he approaches his vessel's upkeep in general. What else does this vessel lack which is generally deemed essential for this type of trip? Not critisizing him, for all I know he may not be able to afford it or unwilling to pay for it but still an iffy vessel is an iffy vessel, regardless of owner's state of mind or finances.

[Snore]

I agree with the owner. I have NEVER demanded a raft on a coastal hop. When in doubt,I bring the EPIRB off my boat.

If the boat is so dodgy she can’t make 30 hours at sea, why are you on the boat???? If she goes down, as the Master, you are liable! Was she surveyed? Are there sprung planks, broken ribs or beams?

With a 50 you are just breaking into the business. Sometimes you have to move some dodgy boats to get sea time. But in the end YOU are always liable.

Without pulling out charts and doing the routing- consider breaking it into shorter hops.

[Franziska]

In my eyes that's irresponsible towards you and the crew, especially as he eventually will need a raft and dinghy anyway.

What would you do in case of a fire? Swim?

Over here in France yachts going more than 6nm offshore are obliged by law to have a raft, seems prudent to me.
We are not legally required to have it under German flag, but carry one anyway, besides the dinghy.

[Lew Hill]

Send a link of this page and the responses to him.

[Cthoops]

I wouldn’t be concerned about the lack of a life raft (we’ve done longer hops on our boat without one), and I’d bring my own EPIRB. If I’m docking, then the lack of a dinghy wouldn’t bother me either (if conditions are bad enough to cause a sinking, a dinghy in lieu of a liferaft isn’t going to be particularly helpful).

What WOULD give me pause is taking an off-shore hop on an old wood boat that has a new owner who isn’t familiar with its maintenance history. But everyone’s level of acceptable risk obviously varies.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by Tatheelrod22

OK. I have 40 years of sailing experience and own my own Schooner. I have been asked to move a recently purchased Schooner for its new owner from the Alabama coast down to and possibly through Lake Okeechobee. In anticipation of my recent retirement a few years prior I got my US Coast Guard 50 ton masters license with the sail endorsement. I don’t need that for this trip given no paying passengers however here is my question.



There will be three paid hands with me for the trip. I have no concerns for any part of the trip other than the short trip offshore from Carrabelle Florida to somewhere around Tarpon Springs Tampa, etc. depending upon weather factors. It’s not a long trip (likely 30 hrs +-)however it is offshore and I was surprised to learn last night the owner doesn’t seem to feel obligated to provide a life raft, EPIRB, or even a dinghy. Over the last couple of months I’ve gotten to know him I thought reasonably well and I’m still shocked about this. My gut feeling is to tell him that I am happy to get the boat over to the Florida panhandle for him however I have no intentions of taking a wooden Schooner and three other people out into the Gulf of Mexico without more emergency contingency back up.



I can’t imagine that I am being too cautious about this but if some of you folks have a different opinion I’d love to hear it. I have not yet communicated to him these thoughts so I wanted to post this first.

I think when you write the contract with him, clearly state in bullet points what you require for a passage. Following that give him a choice to relinquish any liability if those bullet points are refused by him.
There is plenty of example in the internet on how to draw a simple liability waiver enforceable in both Alabama and Florida.
Funny thing, I just drew one for my daughter in college when she was forced to give away her pet ferret to a new owner. You do not have to make it that complicated.

In fact, you should also review your contract with the hired hands. Invest in a local lawyer with two types of liability releases and it will serve you for your next gig.

All other advices on EPIRBs are sound. I would be also worried you have a good working engine as if final destination is Lake Okeechobbee, there is lots of motoring up the Caloosahatchie river. At least you will not have to deal with that dammed bridge if going east to west.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Cthoops

I wouldn’t be concerned about the lack of a life raft (we’ve done longer hops on our boat without one), and I’d bring my own EPIRB. If I’m docking, then the lack of a dinghy wouldn’t bother me either (if conditions are bad enough to cause a sinking, a dinghy in lieu of a liferaft isn’t going to be particularly helpful)..

I prefer a dinghy over a liferaft, they are tougher for a start.. also in abandon ship situations one deflates it a bit, having it fully inflated is dangerous as they are prone to flipping.
Partially inflated they bend over the waves.
Pump up for good weather, deflate for seas.. and I'm talking dinghies not ribs.