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Old 08-10-2020, 15:00   #31
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Re: The Earth is flat!

I think it dangerous to simply dismiss flat Earthers (and all the related non-science believers) as simply people who are unintelligent. In many cases these people are demonstrably highly intelligent and thoughtful. And more importantly, they tend to be people who are also highly engaged in the subject. Often they've spent way more time thinking about the issue than the average person.

The question we need to ask ourselves is, how do people like this fall so far off the apple cart? How do our highly technical and science-based societies produce people like this?

Anti-science movements are on the rise all over the developed world. The Internet, and to a larger extent so-called "social media", are great enablers. But there is something deeper going on. Expertise and verifiable knowledge is under attack at all levels. We see the results in anti-science rhetoric that is now being spouted at the highest levels of leadership.

Flat Earthers are kinda cute. It easy to dismiss them. But they are a tip of a very large iceberg that appears to be growing.
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Old 08-10-2020, 15:25   #32
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Re: The Earth is flat!

Hello forum! I had my first long sailing voyage last year and within the first few days I was approaching Dublin from the North and noticed what I thought was a small island dead ahead... it was useful as a point of navigation to steer towards. As I got closer, it rose, and rose, and rose until it was clearly a largish mountain (Wicklow mountains?). I marvelled at the experience, and reflected on that being the first time that I had tangible first hand evidence of the earth being round. It obviously wasn't just visibility, it was something that looked like a small rock in the sea growing to be something that rose high above the horizon. That is what I love about sailing, you experience real things and learn from the experiences.
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Old 08-10-2020, 15:34   #33
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Re: The Earth is flat!

So the earth being round explains lots of things like how the stars move, pictures other people took from space (who has been in space here?)

But this does not discount the possibility that perhaps the world really is flat after all, and beyond the ice wall of Antarctica new lands await discovery. Eventually science will uncover the truth. After all, Newton was proven wrong, and now Einstein's theories are in question.

Maybe it turns out the earth is neither round nor flat, but a 7 dimensional object which allows for what we consider magic as well as all sorts of mysteries like the bermuda triangle.
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Old 08-10-2020, 15:57   #34
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
Maybe it turns out the earth is neither round nor flat, but a 7 dimensional object which allows for what we consider magic as well as all sorts of mysteries like the bermuda triangle.
Or maybe it's a disk on the back of four elephants on the back of a turtle.
And the magic number is 8 , not 7.
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Old 08-10-2020, 16:35   #35
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Re: The Earth is flat!

i don't mean to throw a spanner in the works, but doesn't the earth HAVE to be flat in order to sit on top of the 4 elephants who are in turn standing on the giant turtle ?

i mean it would roll off if it was round, wouldn't it ?

oh, and the magic number is 42 !

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Old 08-10-2020, 16:38   #36
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I think it dangerous to simply dismiss flat Earthers (and all the related non-science believers) as simply people who are unintelligent. In many cases these people are demonstrably highly intelligent and thoughtful. And more importantly, they tend to be people who are also highly engaged in the subject. Often they've spent way more time thinking about the issue than the average person.

The question we need to ask ourselves is, how do people like this fall so far off the apple cart? How do our highly technical and science-based societies produce people like this?

Anti-science movements are on the rise all over the developed world. The Internet, and to a larger extent so-called "social media", are great enablers. But there is something deeper going on. Expertise and verifiable knowledge is under attack at all levels. We see the results in anti-science rhetoric that is now being spouted at the highest levels of leadership.

Flat Earthers are kinda cute. It easy to dismiss them. But they are a tip of a very large iceberg that appears to be growing.

That's an easy one to answer..... Science has and is manipulated to meet agendas and political ends especially where there are very big $ involved - Climate change springs to mind, bringing a mistrust by a certain section of the populace about it.
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Old 08-10-2020, 16:59   #37
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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That's an easy one to answer..... Science has and is manipulated to meet agendas and political ends especially where there are very big $ involved - Climate change springs to mind, bringing a mistrust by a certain section of the populace about it.
Yes, as it has always been. But we are living in a time when objective truth is now in question. The consensus on climate change, and its causes, is an excellent example of this. Although I fear even mentioning it since it will inevitably bring out the avalanche of anti-science folk of which we're talking about.

(Which is further example of the rise of this phenomena).
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Old 08-10-2020, 17:01   #38
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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Or maybe it's a disk on the back of four elephants on the back of a turtle.
And the magic number is 8 , not 7.

And don’t forget the Circumfence which catches all the things that fall off the edge of the Disk!
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Old 08-10-2020, 17:05   #39
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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So I caught a documentary on the Flat Earthers.

Made for a good comedy.

But after some googling I found out this is all rather serious!!

So I was just wondering, are there any Yachties/Boaters who believe the earth is flat?

This could bring out a few Trolls!!! Sorry.
Ask your friend why the sun and moon at least look round, or like a flat disk anyway ? Also ask what is getting between the moon and sun and casting a round curve shadow on the moon at times. This would be the earth getting in the way, casting the curved shadow. Either the earth is then round, or like a frizbee. If like a disc, are there people walking under foot, or are folks all on one side. During the lunar eclipse, somehow this earth shadow (also round) totally eclipses the moon. Then there is the solar eclipse where the roles are changed. If all these are discs, what keeps them in continual proper orientation so that all shadows cast look round, and not oval (out of planer alignment if discs). Mass is in a higher energy state if discs than if they collapse into a round object (example a rain drop). Everything wants to relax to the lowest energy state unless fed an external energy source (to be a disc, flat plate of some thickness, etc). They don't need the internet or pictures to think about all this, just their eyes and mind to work it out.

So we have at least disc shaped things (earth, moon, sun). So now, lets assume that the disc shaped sun goes around the earth, or that the earth disc is spinning end for end in front of the sun, so that we can get a sun rise and a sun set. Either way works. If this is true, and we are still talking about flat plates, then have your friend call a trusted friend 2 or three thousand flat earth miles away (east or west), when your friend just notices the sun is coming up for them. Does the friend see the same sun angle ? They would, if the earth is a flat plate being illuminated by the flat disc sun. If the friend sees a higher elevation sun (or no sun at all yet), then there is a serious problem with flat earth shape theory. The only way this could be happening is if the earth were a rotating ball. Forget time zones and all that, just have him call a friend at his sun up.
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Old 08-10-2020, 17:40   #40
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Re: The Earth is flat!

I have interacted with very serious flat-earthers, and also very convincing geo-centrist flat earthers: in other words, they believe that the earth is the center of everything and does not move. While the ones I've spoken to are both literate, intelligent and logical, none of them has gone seafaring and learned navigation.
I'd think a simple flight over the south pole from Chile to Australia would convince them, if only you could convince them that each of those places are real.
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Old 08-10-2020, 18:00   #41
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Re: The Earth is flat!

That movie is great. Something of a pick me up if you’re ever feeling low.

I appreciate how each of their experiments proves them wrong. I mean, they are great experiments. The laser over the lake, I mean wow. Simple and true.
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Old 08-10-2020, 18:27   #42
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Re: The Earth is flat!

I believe Ptolemy of Alexandria created some unbelievable mathmatical gyrations in order to prove the earth was the center of the universe, and Copernicus did some fancy tap dancing to promote his heliocentric theory (or be labeled a heretic and be burned at the stake or some such thing)
I wonder how a flat earther could explain the math behind celestial navigation?
How does spherical geometry work on a flat plate?

BTW, The clown from Amboy or Ludlow who was going to go up in a rocket to prove the earth was flat, ended up splattering himself all over the Mojave Desert.
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Old 08-10-2020, 18:46   #43
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Re: The Earth is flat!

Actually, depending on your perspective, the Earth could be flat. But for people on Earth, this is irrelevant:


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Old 08-10-2020, 18:48   #44
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Re: The Earth is flat!

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I think it dangerous to simply dismiss flat Earthers (and all the related non-science believers) as simply people who are unintelligent. In many cases these people are demonstrably highly intelligent and thoughtful. And more importantly, they tend to be people who are also highly engaged in the subject. Often they've spent way more time thinking about the issue than the average person.

The question we need to ask ourselves is, how do people like this fall so far off the apple cart? How do our highly technical and science-based societies produce people like this? ....
I'll bet a paycheck that there is a very small contingent of flat-Earth people who, quite simply, do not have the brain wiring to compute the Earth as round, while this same small group are otherwise neurotypical. I've watched a couple videos where the person making the video clearly spent a lot of time trying to see that the Earth was round, but just couldn't, while frankly providing more calculations to prove their point than the average "duh, it's round" people are capable of. It's like watching a color blind person try hard to explain 2 colors are in fact 1 or something.

Perhaps easiest for most people to relate to is the phenomenon of optical illusions (moon size, spinning masks, etc). With an optical illusion it is fairly easy for most people to just join the herd, or, use other sensory perceptions (touch/tactile) to overcome the visual illusion...but not everyone can...and it's hard to do with the Earth when you're wired to understand things differently...and this doesn't per se make them (all) crazy or anti-science. Not recognizing that all sorts of "perception of perception deficits" exist in the population is sort of anti-sciency in and of itself.

Clearly the largess of flat-Earthers are 'conspiracy to fill the science gaps' folks...but at the core of the matter I'd suggest is an interesting phenomenon.
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Old 08-10-2020, 19:07   #45
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Re: The Earth is flat!

I watched a documentary that convinced me the world is flat. They even showed what happens when you sail off of the edge! Erik the Viking.

Watch it and you will be a convert.

Seriously though, are there any flat earthers who are celestial navigators?

Thx-Ace
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