Seen various people say to never use a phone/tablet for navigation. Why?

[Maple Leaf]

Good morning,

I have chartered cats for the last 10 to 12 years and started using an iPad with iSailor chart software after a GPS fail on one of our charters. Fortunately the GPS failed on a charter in the BVIs where the sailing was quite straightforward. It was a lesson to bring a tablet along as a reduntantcy which proved to be beneficial once again with a malfunction on another charter.

I have since upgraded my iPad and I am now looking at switching to Navionics. My vote is to definitely have a backup phone/tablet with charts.

Good luck with your adventures.

Robert

[kelbylinn]

It really not a question to me of "either/or" when it comes to chart plotters and Ipads, etc. I have the usual Garmin Chart Plotters, one at the pilot house and one on the flybridge which is my main charting source including running the autopilot. I use an Ipad as back up and to look ahead of the chart plotter's active course for what is coming up down the waterway including searching for anchorages through AquaMap.

I love redundancy.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

If you only have an iPad / tablet, you should have at least two, and they have to have built in GPS (not dependent on 4G). Next year, when I start my Caribbean circumnavigation, I'll have two chartplotters (one at the helm, and a cheap one at the nav station), two iPads, and a Garmin handheld device, all networked together. Pre-COVID, I went to the Bahamas with one chartplotter, an iPad and a phone with Navionics loaded. Redundancy is good, especially since electronics can and will fail.

[Canarios]

Originally Posted by Duxa

Hey all,

I am early in the sailing journey, just finishing up ASA 101 and plan to charter a bunch of boats before buying my own (and take at least ASA 103, and probably 104 before then).

I installed OpenCPN (not a fan), and also got Navionics app for phone/tablet (am a fan).

Seeing how Id be sailing a bunch of different boats through the charter, and on the cheap low end Catalina 30's from mid 80's they dont even have nav equipment (or its non functioning). What should I use for nav?

Why are tablet/phone charts not trusted? Is it an issue with trusting the hardware to not fail in a marine environment? If so, then how can a laptop or Rpi be trusted? Those are definitely not IP6X like modern phones/tablets.

I am generally good as far as locating myself on a paper map, but having a GPS overlay update every second seems like it is always a better option (even if using a cheap Chinese tablet with poor GPS chip). Especially in an ocean with no landmarks.

So I am curious as to why people say to never use a phone/tablet for navigation. To me, as someone new to sailing it sounds alien, almost like someone telling me to never use my phone to navigate roads (driving directions).

40 years ago, when chart plotters came out, did ole sailors say not to trust a computer and use paper charts instead? If electrical fails you are screwed! Which is true for phones/tablets as well (once the battery runs out), but I think chart plotters are generally considered a trusted source for charting these days?

Of course having redundancy is very important, but this almost solves itself, unless you are single handing, everyone has a phone. Some have a phone AND a tablet. And even if single handing the low barrier of $50 for an Android device allows you to throw an extra one in a Pelican case with some silica in case you need it.

Looking forward to the discussion. Thanks!

I used a tablet, which I found very valuable when sailing my boat from Stockhol to Gran Canaria.
Down load Navionics Boating. A very good chart which even shows depth changes at high and low tide as well as current speed and directions when the tide changes, which my plotter did not. An invaluable aid.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Another problem not mentioned yet, is most phone/tablet built in GPS rely on constant 4G connection to download, and maintain maps.

You gotta love the internet..

This is 100% wrong if you are using a REAL navigating charting application. No internet connection is required. Navionics, iSailor, and many others.

If you are navigating on the water with google maps, well, you get what you pay for.

I am not a fan of a tablet as my primary navigation tool, but this is making up issues that just do not exist.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Another problem not mentioned yet, is most phone/tablet built in GPS rely on constant 4G connection to download, and maintain maps.

Ummm...no.

Most charting apps download the maps ahead of time. You may need to download updates occasionally but that's to have the latest...same as a dedicated chart plotter only easier. Even if you are using Google Maps, you can download an area ahead of time.

The only issue that holds some truth is waterproof and that's only if you have an exposed helm. We always used a basic laptop but the helm was pretty well protected from rain. Of course, you can get waterproof boxes to address that.

With 2 tablets and 4 phones, we can have 5 backups all running the same software so if one goes down, we can use the other and it's the same platform, so no learning curve. We've never had a charger fail. We have had power issues with built in electronics.

I think the 2nd response nailed it...they need to justify the many thousands spent on a dedicated marine grade system...of which I've seen many complaining about issues, so don't believe the $10k chart plotter is immune to issues.

[FabioC]

I think that tablets are almost complementary to the on-board chartplotter.

Navigation features on tablets are generally superior to what the chartplotter can offer, especially in terms of routing, current analysis, wind, etc.
Also, tablets are movable, and there are many situations when it is useful for the crew to have a "screen" with a chart in addition to the chartplotter (e.g., downstairs, on the bow, when trying to find a landmark, or navigating a tricky area). Tablets are ideal for that. Finally, in a situation where you want to navigate both with a chart and with satellite images (as when negotiating a tricky passage, for example), the tablet is ideal as the second screen next to the chartplotter.

The debit side of tablets is that they do overheat if left exposed for long time and the GPS is occasionally not as reliable (or at least may give a slightly different position) as the one of the chartplotter.

However, each has its use.

We use the chartplotter for basic navigation, in conjunction with tablets when advance routing/planning/navigation is needed or when an extra screen is desirable. We have three mounts in different places in the cockpit and on the stanchions where the tablet(s) can be easily mounted if hand-free operation is needed.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by BillKny

You gotta love the internet..

Agree, there's a lot of myths out there, but as many publications say, "the prudent mariner will not rely solely on any single aid to navigation".

I'm happy with a tablet, far more than with the MFDs I've seen. IMO the main reason for an MFD is to display radar.

I can set my tablet to "stay on" when I don't want to worry about the screen locking. I can pop it into airplane mode to conserve battery and avoid distractions. When it does have Internet I can easily ensure my charts are the most current official versions.

My tablet app darkens its screen sufficient for night work. There are also ways to do that in the OS and not rely on the app, which is good if you're using apps like Navionics or iSailor that lack a proper night mode, and also good if you're concerned about a blast of brightness when switching to another app or the home screen.

I don't leave my binoculars in the sun, so why would I do any different with a tablet? When using paper charts I don't need to be continuously glued to them, so why would I suddenly need to be doing that with electronics?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Duxa

...40 years ago, when chart plotters came out, did ole sailors say not to trust a computer and use paper charts instead? If electrical fails you are screwed! Which is true for phones/tablets as well (once the battery runs out), but I think chart plotters are generally considered a trusted source for charting these days?....

There may also be a generational thing in the mix. 40 years ago (and indeed today) some people argued that a chartplotter couldn't take the place of paper charts. Now many people argue you "need" a chartplotter at the helm, have to be able to see it outdoors in bright sun. We never used paper charts at the helm. But chartplotters have taken over as the new standard.

I started with paper charts, never had a chartplotter, and skipped over them to a tablet. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, so I navigate the way I used to, which is largely with the chart (now on a tablet or a monitor) at the chart table, not in the cockpit. So far, I haven't found a use case where I felt I needed a chart in the cockpit, YMMV.

[edit]I see requiem expressed similar thoughts at the same time[/edit]

[dwedeking2]

I have a 10" tablet set up as my main navigation w/ non-cellular GPS using navionics (download maps prior to departure). Back up tablet set up same way. Phone linked via inreach (also running navionics) to back up the backup. Old fashioned Garmin handheld GPS just in case. Paper charts to plan with and in case those post apocalyptic fiction books are true.

Off shore your not staring at the screen to adjust every minute so you can keep the tablet out of the sun/weather. Coming into port I've studied the danger spots long in advance instead of steering by GPS.

[mjscottinnc]

I’ve had this discussion with numerous people, many are strongly against using tablets for navigation. They will sight a number of shortcomings and as with any devise there is some adaptations for optimum use. I use dual 9.7” iPads with onboard gps and have 3 to 4 marine navigation apps on each. I have a galaxy android tablet as a backup, and a laptop in the cabin for additional redundancy. Never had a failure. The tablets are waterproofed, constantly on charge, they mount using military ram mounts on the binnacle arch. I also use a Wi-Fi radar that can transmit to the iPads and overlay on the charts if needed. I like the setup and wouldn’t change, I’ve gone offshore for months at a time without a single failure. Every prudent mariner can decide for him or her self. You will get a lot of noise and scare tactics, talk to people who have or are using them for first hand information.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Duxa

40 years ago, when chart plotters came out, did ole sailors say not to trust a computer and use paper charts instead? If electrical fails you are screwed! Which is true for phones/tablets as well (once the battery runs out), but I think chart plotters are generally considered a trusted source for charting these days?

40yrs ago, chart plotters were too expensive to have backups on the vast majority of cruising boats...that's super yacht territory and even there many didn't have backup chart plotters. Certainly not backups with independent power source and antenna. They were also pretty wonky and not so user friendly so not all the crew had a solid understanding of how they work. There was good justification to keep paper as a backup.

With tablet/phones, it's not unusual to have 4 or more units on board each fully independent and far more user friendly. If ships power goes out, by leaving them off except for position checks every couple hours, the built in batteries should generally be good for weeks of navigation if offshore. The odds of all the available alternatives failing is so low that a built in marine chart plotter is really tough to justify when any issue that takes out all of the tablet/phones is likely going to take out the chart plotter.

[Redline452]

From experience, I can say that an iPad is not nearly as visible (especially while wearing polarized sunglasses) as an MFD. With the brightness necessarily cranked to max, even plugged in it may not maintain a charge.

Furthermore, I bought a Raymarine Axiom 9 on a boatshow special for about the same, or actually a little less than, a fully-optioned iPad.



On the other hand, after my Axiom 9 recently died (power swipe-switch went weird, then it tripped the breaker and let out the magic bad smell (related to the magic smoke, but the case is pretty much sealed)), I have resorted to using my iPad at the helm mirroring the Axiom12 at the nav station via WiFi and their RayControl app. Most of the functionality of the Ax9, without the screen visibility. Sigh.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by BillKny

You gotta love the internet..

This is 100% wrong if you are using a REAL navigating charting application. No internet connection is required. Navionics, iSailor, and many others.

I use Navionics on my phone. I have a paid subscription.



There have been occasions when it required a network connection because it required me to log in before showing the chart even though the chart was previously downloaded. On one of these occasions I was in a remote area and could not use the application as a result. (I have backups).


This happened earlier this year, after I had used Navionics without incident for several years previously.

[zstine]

just make sure you understand the difference between raster and vector charts. Navionics uses vector charts, but you can download raster charts for Opencpn. vector charts have more/different info as you zoom and don't show obstructions if you are zoomed out too far. it has caused some serious accidents