Schooner Nina - MERGED 3 THREADS

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by romulusm

Why would a plane returning from an area be a reason for searching that area? What is the connection? Maybe I do not understand correctly something...

if you look at the Chart it would be feasible for the Nina to have reached at least part of that area within 3 weeks from last position, how likely is a separate question.....but as the plane was flying the route anyway better they have a look than not.

[romulusm]

I agree, but they were heading NW. Searching that area makes sense only if looking for debris or drifting vessel or liferaft, but then no EPIRB activated.

As for the second "not-making-sense" issue, the text says that *other* plane just returned from that area, this being the reason for P3 searching that same area. Why would this be a reason? The *other* plane saw something and informed NZ authorities?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by romulusm

Governments can track cellular in populated cities, where one cellular, are as you say is "pinged" by several cellular stations. But this is not the case here, where no station is in range.

Whilst I expect no coverage mid Tasman, nonetheless feasible that if near shore (even an unpopulated one) that they are in range of something - very much depends on what the coverage is like onshore, of which I know nothing.

Do not know a lot about Iridium or any other sat phone service, but I would expect that in order to preserve power in a mobile terminal, there is no "pinging" while not in use. If there are more satellites receiving a particular mobile terminal transmissions, it would be technically possible to triangulate the source of that transmission exactly as in a cell network, but again, not sure, mobile terminal is transmitting any radio waves while not in use.

Me was just kicking the thought out there for someone who knows more to pick up on. Clearly that ain't me and you .

[boatman61]

My experience of Sat phones in the SP was the service is very spotty... would often go days when no way could I get a link... could be they are just not in an area with a regular fly over off any strength.
This is one of those old fashioned situations where the skills of skipper, crew and a good boat will get them through... not fancy gadgets..
The 'Blurb' and reality are often different things...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My experience of Sat phones in the SP was the service is very spotty... would often go days when no way could I get a link... could be they are just not in an area with a regular fly over off any strength.
This is one of those old fashioned situations where the skills of skipper, crew and a good boat will get them through... not fancy gadgets..
The 'Blurb' and reality are often different things...

What sort of sat phone boatman

Dave

[s/v 'Faith']

Originally Posted by bazzer

Not a lot, the EPIRB is not dependent on external power or antenna. Nina might be limping along unaware of the SAR operation and not being in enough danger to activate the EPIRB

Yes, seems very reasonable. I well found boat with such a highly competent crew could well be limping along.... I would not be inclined to set off the EPIRB unless sinking or in distress....

Hope is indeed not lost!

The sat phone messages can get hung up for a variety or reasons. My Irridium extreme has not done it, but my older GSC communicator used to do it all the time. One example might be using the shortcut for the address and putting an extra space in before the comma...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What sort of sat phone boatman

Dave

Was the other big player... can't recall the name... sorry
1st time I've had one to use.. came with the boat I was delivering to OZ last year...
Not overly impressed... but then I'm crap at communication.. a quick e-mail before leaving and another at the next port is good enuf 4 me

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Was the other big player... can't recall the name... sorry
1st time I've had one to use.. came with the boat I was delivering to OZ last year...
Not overly impressed... but then I'm crap at communication.. a quick e-mail before leaving and another at the next port is good enuf 4 me

Global star is poor down under , Iridium is good though , ( and a far technically superior system )

[stara]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

The answer to that could depend on the EPIRB. If it was not water activaed and it was lost overboard than that would be that for the EPIRB. If it was water activated and has not been, then the scenario I would like to hope for is they are limping along a little beat up with no electrical.

If the type and mounting location of the EPIRB is not known to RCC already, maybe someone has a picture that could help determine that. Key question: is the EPIRB on Nina equipped with hydrostatic release and is it mounted on a float-free position? Or is the EPIRB stowed at a bulkhead mount inside the cabin e.g. at the chart table area.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by stara

maybe someone has a picture that could help determine that.

Good point. I should have included that in my post...thanx

[Friend of Nina]

Update!





RCC update



Cherie

[Friend of Nina]

Didn't take




Repeat. Cc

[DefinitelyMe]

Interesting that the undelivered text states that they were doing 4 knots on a course of 310. Based on DR one might not be so specific. That sounds like the sort of thing you would read off a GPS, which implies that they still had electrics. At any rate it sounds very promising and not at all as if they were seriously concerned for the safety of the vessel.

Regarding the posts questioning the search to the NE of NZ; indeed, there is no real reason why the boat should have been there but given that the plane was flying that way anyway and had the equipment to detect a vessel of Nina's type it couldn't hurt to keep an eye out. That's the way i interpret it at least.

[Exile]

Probably already considered, but couldn't help wondering if there were other undelivered messages, esp. when the one on 6/3 indicated they would send another update at 6pm. It's possible they have been sending comms. all this time via sat phone but don't realize they're not getting through.

[opusnz]

Latest update: #11

4 July 2013: 6.45am
An RNZAF P3 Orion will depart this morning to resume searching for the crew of an American schooner missing en route from New Zealand to Australia.
The 21m (70ft) Nina, sailing from Opua in the Bay of Islands to Newcastle with seven people on board, has not been heard from since 4 June. Extensive aerial searches over the past nine days have found no trace of the crew or their vessel or liferaft. Heavy rain and poor visibility prevented any searching yesterday.

Rescue Coordination Centre New Zealand (RCCNZ) has tasked the Orion to search a rectangular area north of and parallel to another area searched by radar on Wednesday last week. The aircraft is expected to depart at around 9am or 10am and will search for about five hours, covering an area of 73,000 square nautical miles that extends as far west as the Middleton and Elizabeth reefs in the Tasman Sea. Today’s search will take the total coverage during the search for Nina to more than 689,500 square kilometres.

RCCNZ Operations Manager John Seward said today’s search area was identified during reassessment overnight of the data gathered from earlier searches and the results of drift modelling from the last known positions for the yacht on 4 June. He said almost all of the new search area has not been searched previously, apart from 2,100 square nautical miles covered on Tuesday.

RCCNZ is liaising with Rescue Coordination Centre Australia (RCC Australia), which is assisting with broadcasts on coastal radio. New Zealand Maritime Radio is continuing to conduct broadcasts in New Zealand’s search and rescue region.

Background
There are seven people on board the schooner Nina, six Americans (three men aged 17, 28 and 58, and three women aged 18, 60 and 73) and a British man aged 35
.
To date, the RCCNZ has coordinated seven searches, with an RNZAF P3K2 Orion aircraft covering a combined area of more than 615,000 square nautical miles. Two aerial shoreline searches have also been conducted (on 28 and 29 June) but no sign has been found of the vessel or its crew.

The schooner Nina, built in 1928, left Opua on 29 May and was last heard from on 4 June, when the vessel was about 370 nautical miles west-north-west of Cape Reinga. Records show that conditions at the vessel’s last known position were very rough, with winds of 80kmh gusting to 110kmh and swells of up to 8m.

The vessel is equipped with satellite phone, a spot tracking device which allows regular tracking signals to be sent manually, and an emergency beacon. The emergency beacon has not been activated.

After concerns were raised by family and friends, the RCCNZ instigated a communications search on 14 June, using a range of communications methods to broadcast alerts to the vessel and others in the area. RCCNZ determined that the vessel should have arrived at its intended destination by 25 June, and aerial searches were instigated when it had not arrived by that date.

Search summary
2 July
An aerial search south of Norfolk, covering approximately 2,100 square nautical miles. The P3 Orion was airborne at 6am and searched until 4.30pm before returning to New Zealand.
1 July
An aerial search of approximately 3,780 square nautical miles north of North Cape. The P3 Orion arrived on scene at about 9.30am and continued searching until 6pm. Conditions in the search area were good, with excellent visibility.

30 June
An extensive aerial search of 4,830 square nautical miles north-east of Northland. The P3 Orion arrived at the search area at around 8am and conducted an aerial and radar search until approximately 4pm.

29 June
An extended shoreline search for the crew was undertaken for a second day without success. RCCNZ tasked a helicopter to perform a coastal search from Port Waikato to New Plymouth. The Tauranga-based Phillips Search and Rescue helicopter was on scene at around 11.45am.

28 June
A twin-engine fixed-wing aircraft was tasked to search the shoreline and coast starting at Tauroa Point, along Ninety Mile Beach, north of Northland, and out to and around Three Kings Islands.

The Hamilton-based Phillips Search and Rescue Trust fixed-wing Piper Chieftain aeroplane with the pilot and three observers on board arrived at Tauroa Point from Hamilton at about 10.45am, and searched throughout the day until 5pm.

26 June
A search was completed of 324,000 square nautical miles between northern New Zealand and the Australian coast, based on the vessel suffering damage but continuing to make progress towards Australia.

25 June
A search area of 140,000 square nautical miles was covered, to the immediate north-north-east of New Zealand, based on the vessel being disabled and drifting.
ENDS
Note to media: No updates will be issued until further information becomes available.