Sailing vessel and RORO ship on collision courses - what do you think of the outcome?

[KetchJohnB]

If you have a source of wifi, like a B&G Zeus 3 chart plotter, it can be accessed as a Wifi source for you computer. It outputs a 0183 stream, at its wifi address and port 10110. The format is GPSD. That streams in the AIS data along with other things for OpenCPM. No wires. OpenCPM supports this input right out of the box.

[KetchJohnB]

Originally Posted by KetchJohnB

If you have a source of wifi, like a B&G Zeus 3 chart plotter, it can be accessed as a Wifi source for you computer. It outputs a 0183 stream, at its wifi address and port 10110. The format is GPSD. That streams in the AIS data along with other things for OpenCPM. No wires. OpenCPM supports this input right out of the box.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Yours has the benefit of the dotted magenta line, but I imagine that also is less easy to determine for close CPA without zooming into a smaller range scale. I'm not a fan of cluttering up my screen with long leaders and such, and would rather read that useful bit of info from the tote. Personal preference.

I think that for a close CPA that information would be increasingly inaccurate. I snuck in a ninja edit to update the screenshot with one that shots CPA points for both vessels; if you assume a bit of Brownian motion and have each point wander, when they are far apart the bearing changes little. But, when they are close you'd get massive shifts in their relative bearings; I'm not sure I'd even want the info in such cases.

Speaking of long leaders, you might not like how OpenCPN does it. But, the manual indicates it can be enabled on a target-by-target basis. I think that's critical for avoiding clutter.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Try OpenCPN -- will be revelation.

Found screenshots... you're right, that is very prettily done!

[wesevans]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Everyone. It’s our boating culture.

Ferries and large ships have right of way, period where I’m from.

You try to grant some leeway to commercial fishing boats too, out of respect.

You change course well before any collision or navrules are coming into play and navigate with courtesy and respect.

As an extreme example, I challenge anyone to go into New York Harbor, Which is wide open for navigation in all directions, and assert your stand on status with the Staten Island ferry. See where that gets you. Ha ha.

fishing vessels with gear deployed have the right of way as does any vessel that is restricted in it's ability to maneuver.

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by Todd727

Careful: The few exceptions include New York City,[5] where right turns on red are prohibited, unless a sign indicates otherwise.

Yes, there are local prohibitions, but there are no states where it is illegal at the state level.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wesevans

fishing vessels with gear deployed have the right of way as does any vessel that is restricted in it's ability to maneuver.

Still!!!!
No they don't! No one has "right of way"
And again we see the omission of the critical phrase "which restrict manoeuvrability "

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Actually it's a fairly broad spectrum, from 65ft down.. ages between brand new and 45yrs old.. Lagoons, Bali's, Moody 45DS and other assorted mono's..

As for foggy, moonless nights.. done quite a few of those on boats from 21ft to 31ft across the English Channel on 'booze cruises' from Poole to Cherbourg over the years..
Like DH I've survived.. does not make either of us better than the other.

I don’t question the truth in that few of the boats you deliver have radar but I do strongly disagree that anything close to only 10% of cruising boats have radar. I think it’s at least 75% and anyone can see that for themselves simply by looking out across a harbor or marina full of cruising sailboats. Hint: it’s much easier to count the ones without radar.

Yes, you’ve told us all before about how you like to cross busy traffic lanes and the English Channel on foggy moonless nights without radar and since you seem to bring it up a lot you seem to think it is something to be proud of when what it really means is that all the other vessels out there with radar have been forced to avoid you whether they are the stand on vessel or not, because you were blind so had no idea you were even involved in a potential crossing conflict. Everybody outa my way, I’m coming through! We’ve all known people like that.

Yes, you and DH have both survived, snd so has every other poster on this forum, unless Davey Jones locker has finally been equipped with WIFI.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by wesevans

fishing vessels with gear deployed have the right of way as does any vessel that is restricted in it's ability to maneuver.

Technically it doesn’t say they have right of way, and it’s not enough for them to have “gear deployed” and instead it must be the sort of gear that attaches them to the bottom such as a trawl or to a large net that physically prevents them from maneuvering to get out of the way. For example, lots of lobster men think that sailboats must give way to them but a lobster man while fishing is the same as any other motorboat because, though he may prefer to haul a particular pot just as you are approaching under sail, he’s not physically prevented from maneuvering.

[El Pinguino]

My statement still stands..
'And lets not hear about radar.... many yachts don't have it, of those that do few will be stabilised and few operators will understand the concept of 'target trails' in establishing risk of collision.'
I did not say only 10% have radar, I did not even say that the majority don't have radar.... I simply said 'many'.

So there is no point banging on about how radar should be the primary collision avoidance tool.

Where I sail and where I have sailed plenty of yachts have radar... the majority would be old non stabilised sets. The majority of the owners would not know how to do a plot, in fact the majority would not know how to tune a radar. The latter also holds true for many big ship watchkeepers as well.....

This is why first principles are so important.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by wesevans

fishing vessels with gear deployed have the right of way as does any vessel that is restricted in it's ability to maneuver.

It depends upon the type of fishing vessel. For example commercial Trawlers are constrained and therefore are stand-on vessels, commercial or recreational Trollers aren't. I had THAT argument one day when under sail and single-handing off French Creek I apparently sailed too close (in their opinion) to some of the dozens of the "let's get away from the wives, have a few beer, and dangle a line" crowd. Words were exchanged.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

My statement still stands..
'And lets not hear about radar.... many yachts don't have it, of those that do few will be stabilised and few operators will understand the concept of 'target trails' in establishing risk of collision.'
I did not say only 10% have radar, I did not even say that the majority don't have radar.... I simply said 'many'.

So there is no point banging on about how radar should be the primary collision avoidance tool.

Where I sail and where I have sailed plenty of yachts have radar... the majority would be old non stabilised sets. The majority of the owners would not know how to do a plot, in fact the majority would not know how to tune a radar. The latter also holds true for many big ship watchkeepers as well.....

This is why first principles are so important.

I don't get it Ping?
Radar is an integral part of COLREGS when it comes to rules with vesseles not in sight of one another and part.of the definition of poper loolkout.

Why would you wish to resist radar techniques in this discussion ?
FWIW, I took a meander thru SBYC yesterday and I would guess that 80% of the boats <40ft had Radar

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't get it Ping?
Radar is an integral part of COLREGS when it comes to rules with vesseles not in sight of one another and part.of the definition of poper loolkout.

Why would you wish to resist radar techniques in this discussion ?
FWIW, I took a meander thru SBYC yesterday and I would guess that 80% of the boats <40ft had Radar

Because it is a simple sunny afternoon crossing situation ...

Meanwhile...if you refer to the chartlet at post 239, page 16 you will see that it was not really open waters by any stretch and the ship was in an awkward situation.....

If you look at this chartlet below.... the pilot boarding ground is lower left... pecked lines denote a prohibited anchoring zone due to submarine cables but give a good indication of where the ship had to go.
So it can be seen that the inbound ship would have been on the cusp... within a mile ... of making a substantial alteration of course to Stbd. First pink dot where the crossing took place ... lower one the ship's alteration point.

Was it poorly handled by the ship?...I think so .... the watchkeeper should have told the yacht what his intentions were earlier in the piece.

[Fore and Aft]

Pelagic certainly most yachts I survey do not have radar. Then among those owners that do have radar, not many inspire confidence in knowing how to operate it.
Cheers

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Because it is a simple sunny afternoon crossing situation ...



Meanwhile...if you refer to the chartlet at post 239, page 16 you will see that it was not really open waters by any stretch and the ship was in an awkward situation.....



If you look at this chartlet below.... the pilot boarding ground is lower left... pecked lines denote a prohibited anchoring zone due to submarine cables but give a good indication of where the ship had to go.

So it can be seen that the inbound ship would have been on the cusp... within a mile ... of making a substantial alteration of course to Stbd. First pink dot where the crossing took place ... lower one the ship's alteration point.



Was it poorly handled by the ship?...I think so .... the watchkeeper should have told the yacht what his intentions were earlier in the piece.

Neither of those pink dots are relevant to my crossing with the RORO. The top pink dot is 3 miles south of the crossing location. The lower pink dot is irrelevant as the RORO proceeded, just as the two previous ships did, on to anchorage along the shores of Motutapu and Rangitoto, the two large islands at the bottom of your chart.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Pelagic certainly most yachts I survey do not have radar. Then among those owners that do have radar, not many inspire confidence in knowing how to operate it.
Cheers

You didn't say where you were or if boats were all<40ft.
In Asia, most of those size yachts have got there on thier own bottoms and cruise in areas with 1000s of unlit fishing bancas and fads. So maybe location is part of it .

These threads are all about increasing awareness, so helping those to apprecate the proper use of radar is useful.
It is no longer a big cost.

Again, to answer Ping, I look at these events as general teaching moments rather than criticizing the OP, who I credit with taking avoidance action, which the RoRo did not!